OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

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JustaShooter
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by JustaShooter »

djthomas wrote:
docachna wrote:I've been really torn about interstate reciprocity. I know the arguments both ways, but it's along the line of the issues about property owners' rights vs. gun owners' rights --- I'm still just really hesitant to start chipping away at states' rights with THIS particular vehicle.
Prior to about 1934 I would have agreed with you. But now, IMO, there are no states rights left to be chipped away with respect to firearms that have entered interstate commerce. Legislative and judicially that ship has sailed. Now it's really about equal rights. On this particular topic they already decided over 10 years ago that that some retired cop or corrections officer from New Jersey who would have gladly shipped you up the river if you dared carry a single round of ammo in his state must be allowed to carry in ours, disregarding our rules about drinking in bars if it suits his fancy.

As long as LEOSA remains on the books, private citizens must be afforded the same or substantially similar accommodations. There's no way in heck LEOSA is ever getting repealed so I say there's nothing morally or constitutionally superior about dying disarmed in New York* when you're sent for a work trip merely because you aren't someone who does or did hold a privileged vocation.

* Or any other place along the eastern seaboard if your travel includes flying through NY or NJ, or the risk of being diverted there, even if you could otherwise carry at your destination.
I look at it just a bit differently - the 2A has been incorporated to the states for quite some time, and yet, there are clear infringements on the right to keep and bear arms at the state level in those states you mention, and others. To me, although not discussed in the document where it lays out the constitutional basis for the Act, this is a reasonable use of the power of the Federal government to enforce that right.
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by djthomas »

JustaShooter wrote:I look at it just a bit differently - the 2A has been incorporated to the states for quite some time, and yet, there are clear infringements on the right to keep and bear arms at the state level in those states you mention, and others. To me, although not discussed in the document where it lays out the constitutional basis for the Act, this is a reasonable use of the power of the Federal government to enforce that right.
While true that the second amendment has been incorporated to the states since 2010, here we are seven years later and we still don't have any settled jurisprudence on whether or not that includes the right to carry a concealed handgun outside the home. The second and ninth circuits have held that "may issue" is perfectly legal. The seventh held that Illinois's outright concealed carry ban was unconstitutional, but that case never made it to SCOTUS because Illinois passed a shall issue concealed carry law at the eleventh hour. Doing so rendered that challenge moot so as of right now there isn't a circuit split and SCOTUS has not shown any inclination to litigate the matter.

In the absence of clear federal preemption, the states are free to pass whatever laws they want. Furthermore because of the way our judicial system works, those enactments are presumed to be constitutional until determined otherwise.

Don't get me wrong; we're all on the same side but the reality right now is there is no federal constitutionally guaranteed right to carry a concealed handgun outside the home. That doesn't mean that it's prohibited either. It just means that it's left to the states regulate and/or Congress address through its constitutional authority. As proposed this act really wouldn't be the feds enforcing the second amendment as much as it would be them enforcing Article 1, Section 8 (interstate commerce clause).
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Dr. Detroit »

docachna wrote:I'm still just really hesitant to start chipping away at states' rights . . .
Can you be very specific on how interstate reciprocity offends the Tenth Amendment? I'm interested to hear your argument.
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by WestonDon »

It's my understand that it's the interstate commerce clause that is the legal basis for requiring NICS checks for all FFL firearms sales. The assumption being that at one time all firearms passed through interstate commerce. Someone please correct me if my understanding is mistaken.

The interstate commerce clause, in my opinion, is the most abused clause in the constitution. So if it can be used to our detriment we might as well use it to our advantage when we can.
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by djthomas »

WestonDon wrote:The interstate commerce clause, in my opinion, is the most abused clause in the constitution. So if it can be used to our detriment we might as well use it to our advantage when we can.
Precisely. As I said, federally regulating just about anything related to firearms via the ICC is a ship long sailed. The other side is not deterred by constitutional idealism and never will be. But beyond that we're talking about using settled law not advancing some novel concept.
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

WestonDon wrote:...

The interstate commerce clause in my opinion IS THE most abused clause in the constitution.

...
Fixed that for you. :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by mreising »

Watching this one.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Chuck »

Dear Congressman Tiberi,

My name is Chuck LaRosa and I live in Pataskala Ohio. I am writing you today to urge you to become a co-sponsor of H.R. 38, what is commonly referred to as national reciprocity for handgun licensees.

The is a step for freedom of law abiding citizens to travel about our great nation without fear of losing their right to self defense because of crossing a state line.
As a member of Ohioans For Concealed Carry, a non profit grass roots organization that was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to our great state, we have created a position paper that I can not attach using this format to assist you in making your decision.

Please find it at: http://noicefamilyfirearms.com/resource ... -18-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Respectfully,

Chuck LaRosa
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Ohioans For Concealed Carry
*phone number*
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Morne »

Chuck wrote:Dear Congressman Tiberi...
For anybody that thinks contacting their congressman is futile...listen up.

We're going to Washington D.C. OFCC is going to push this bill in person. Dr. Detroit and I are the advocacy team. We're going to go to EVERY Ohio congresscritter who is not currently a co-sponsor of this bill and ask them to become one.

You know who was one of the last offices was to respond to our request for a meeting? Tiberi. Guess what happened TODAY, after a constituent named Chuck contacted Tiberi's office? They responded and now we're coordinating schedules.

BAM, progress.

Call. E-mail. Write. Telegraph. Pony Express. Send smoke signals if you have to. But LET THEM KNOW you want this.
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by sd790 »

Thank you for your advocacy. I contacted Tiberi at least a week ago and got no response, which did surprise me. I will follow up today.
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Morne
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Morne »

sd790 wrote:Thank you for your advocacy. I contacted Tiberi at least a week ago and got no response, which did surprise me. I will follow up today.
Just because they didn't get back to you doesn't mean your message wasn't heard. You were one of many banging on the door that Tiberi's office just answered.

THANK YOU for contacting Tiberi. The more people who do that the easier the lift for our rights. :mrgreen:
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by WestonDon »

Morne wrote:
Chuck wrote:Dear Congressman Tiberi...
For anybody that thinks contacting their congressman is futile...listen up.

We're going to Washington D.C. OFCC is going to push this bill in person. Dr. Detroit and I are the advocacy team. We're going to go to EVERY Ohio congresscritter who is not currently a co-sponsor of this bill and ask them to become one.

You know who was one of the last offices was to respond to our request for a meeting? Tiberi. Guess what happened TODAY, after a constituent named Chuck contacted Tiberi's office? They responded and now we're coordinating schedules.

BAM, progress.

Call. E-mail. Write. Telegraph. Pony Express. Send smoke signals if you have to. But LET THEM KNOW you want this.
My congressman (Bob Latta) is already a cosponsor of this bill. I contacted him thanking him for his support. It doesn't hurt to let 'em know we've got their back when they support us because I am sure they all have constituents that are not too happy about this.

Thanks to you guys for your hard work. A donation is on the way to OFCC to help defray the cost of this campaign.
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sd790
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by sd790 »

I modified Chuck's email to my own style/words. Chuck's was fine, but I avoid sending the same exact message that anyone else does.
Representative Tiberi,

I am writing you today to once again urge you to become a co-sponsor of H.R. 38, what is commonly referred to as national reciprocity for handgun licensees.

The is a positive improvement for the freedom of law abiding citizens to travel about our nation without fear of becoming a criminal for merely crossing a state line.

I am a member of the NRA and Ohioans For Concealed Carry, a non profit grass roots organization that was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to our great state. They have created a position paper to assist you in making your decision.

Please find it at: http://noicefamilyfirearms.com/resource ... -18-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Respectfully,
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Morne
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Morne »

WestonDon wrote:My congressman (Bob Latta) is already a cosponsor of this bill. I contacted him thanking him for his support. It doesn't hurt to let 'em know we've got their back when they support us because I am sure they all have constituents that are not too happy about this.
Hear, hear!!! Politicians receiving an "attaboy" are reassured that they are doing the right thing. You are spot on, sir!
Thanks to you guys for your hard work. A donation is on the way to OFCC to help defray the cost of this campaign.
Thank you for your kind generosity!
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity

Post by Dr. Detroit »

Thanks, everyone, for your support. Morne and I put on some serious mileage walking the halls of Congress yesterday. We had some great meetings and the position paper was well-received (download link for that paper appears in the first post in this thread). OFCC is now way out front on this issue. Thanks to everyone here who has expressed their support!

Dr. D.
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