SB199 parking lots question.

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westsidebestside
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by westsidebestside »

WY_Not wrote:Only the REALLY, REALLY stupid ones who actually fess up to it being firearm related. And if that is the case then paying a stupid tax is not necessarily a bad thing.
westsidebestside wrote:
WY_Not wrote:That may very well be the point of the law but well.. unintended consequences and all that. No matter what this law was intended to do, if an employer wants to fire you after discovering a firearm in your vehicle or even just hearing about same, they WILL do so, they WILL find an excuse, and you WILL be fired.
and some number of them WILL be sued successfully and WILL write a B.F. check. It won't stop everyone from not obeying the law, but will influence compliance significantly.
So the only people successfully sued are those who admit their wrongdoing? Interesting.
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WY_Not
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by WY_Not »

Meh, read it as you will. I just think it would be pretty tough to prove that someone was fired because of a firearm in their vehicle unless the company, the HR department, and legal department is really really stupid. There are way too many other reasons that can be used and supporting evidence would be easy to present.

Here's hoping there are MANY successful firings of people with firearms in their vehicles. May the chains you forge rest lightly on your wrists.
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by M-Quigley »

WY_Not wrote:Only the REALLY, REALLY stupid ones who actually fess up to it being firearm related. And if that is the case then paying a stupid tax is not necessarily a bad thing.
westsidebestside wrote:
WY_Not wrote:That may very well be the point of the law but well.. unintended consequences and all that. No matter what this law was intended to do, if an employer wants to fire you after discovering a firearm in your vehicle or even just hearing about same, they WILL do so, they WILL find an excuse, and you WILL be fired.
and some number of them WILL be sued successfully and WILL write a B.F. check. It won't stop everyone from not obeying the law, but will influence compliance significantly.
Apparently there's at least one employer willing to take the new law on in court. While shopping I ran into someone I used to work with at one of the places I used to work at. In the break room this employees boss was talking about some of Ohio's new laws in general. This employee I know found an opportunity to casually ask he/she heard something about employees can keep guns in cars in the employee lot now, and how will that effect things. The persons boss assured that employee not to worry, nothing has changed in the current company policy. They aren't planning to ask employees in general for a car search (although the employees had to agree in writing to everything in the employee manual as a condition for employment) They were never trying to actively catch people before, and aren't now either. If however a problem occurs (like a negligent discharge or someone sees the employee with a gun in their car, or an employee tells someone they have a gun in their car, employee shoots someone in parking lot, etc) they will investigate it just as before. If the employee has a gun in the car on company property, they will be terminated. The company has lawyers and also an association who will help them fight it in court if they have to. The employee didn't ask what would happen if the employee didn't consent to a car search, but my guess is since they agreed to it as a condition of employment they'll probably use that as the excuse instead.

As far as I know no one has ever been caught or fired for having a gun on company property in the past, and it probably won't happen in the near future anyway.
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by Javelin Man »

^^ I think in this case I would permit my employer to search my vehicle. I would state in the resulting lawsuit that I was let go immediately following the search where they found my handgun and violated state law by my dismissal.
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by djthomas »

M-Quigley wrote:Apparently there's at least one employer willing to take the new law on in court.
Well of course. When they outlawed refusing to serve blacks in restaurants there was at least one lawyer willing to take that on in court too. We all know how those went. I'm not a lawyer but I don't see an employer's lawsuit going anywhere on this topic either and here's why:

1. As a general matter, labor issues are reserved to the states except where there is an explicit federal requirement to the contrary. There is nothing in federal law prohibiting a state from regulating the possession of firearms by employees, except perhaps in some very special cases like nuclear power plants and whatnot. When parking lot bills have been passed in other states there have been attempts to get OSHA to step in. Surprisingly, even Obama's OSHA said that there is simply no federal jurisdiction on this subject.

2. The Ohio Constitution explicitly gives the General Assembly the authority to pass laws concerning the "comfort, health, safety and general welfare of all employees." It's hard to argue that requiring employers to allow employees to store something in their personal vehicles does not somehow impact their comfort, health, safety, or general welfare. Furthermore the Constitution goes on to state that "no other provision of the constitution shall impair or limit this power" so arguments based on other sections of the Ohio Constitution by an employer will likely be for naught.

Oh and by the way, my big multinational employer with probably over 100 in house attorneys? I broke Tweed's rules and asked one of the HR lawyers whom I trust and have worked with for years. He snorted and said oh yeah, absolutely, state law controls. Even in states that don't have such an ironclad constitutional grant of authority to regulate employee welfare they've never seen a successful challenge upheld on appeal. In fact, there's serious discussion going on behind the scenes about simply deleting "parking lots" from the description of company premises where possessing weapons is prohibited so employees in any state could keep a weapon in their car. The only hang up is potential liability in states where there's no employer immunity.
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by WhyNot »

''Here's hoping there are MANY successful firings of people with firearms in their vehicles. May the chains you forge rest lightly on your wrists.''
Nice to pass you on the road and only wave with your broken down car in the rain, too. What''s the next step, voodoo dolls around the house? Wishing evil on ppl because of where they store their firearm, SERIOUSLY????
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hall1343
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by hall1343 »

What about school employees (teachers, staff, janitors, etc.)? Assuming that they have their CHL, can they store a secured firearm in their vehicle now (after ~March 20th) since the employer can no longer prevent it and the state law allows the firearm to be left unattended (secured in a locked vehicle)?

The way I'm reading the law, "YES" but I'm certainly open to others opinions/interpretations.

Thanks!
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by pirateguy191 »

hall1343 wrote:What about school employees (teachers, staff, janitors, etc.)? Assuming that they have their CHL, can they store a secured firearm in their vehicle now (after ~March 20th) since the employer can no longer prevent it and the state law allows the firearm to be left unattended (secured in a locked vehicle)?

The way I'm reading the law, "YES" but I'm certainly open to others opinions/interpretations.

Thanks!
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Re: SB199 parking lots question.

Post by M-Quigley »

djthomas wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:Apparently there's at least one employer willing to take the new law on in court.
Oh and by the way, my big multinational employer with probably over 100 in house attorneys? I broke Tweed's rules and asked one of the HR lawyers whom I trust and have worked with for years. He snorted and said oh yeah, absolutely, state law controls. Even in states that don't have such an ironclad constitutional grant of authority to regulate employee welfare they've never seen a successful challenge upheld on appeal. In fact, there's serious discussion going on behind the scenes about simply deleting "parking lots" from the description of company premises where possessing weapons is prohibited so employees in any state could keep a weapon in their car. The only hang up is potential liability in states where there's no employer immunity.
That's good to know, thanks. I'll let that person who is still employed this information the next time I see that person.
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