Ignore The Sign Movement?

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CCIman
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by CCIman »

Be careful being "swept up" in the movement.
Getting caught is the issue:

Just because you don't agree, find it stupid, objectionable, or silly, or does not suit you, it does not mean it is then legal.

Certainly you could get away with it, like shop-lifting, hiring an escort, taking a knife on a plane, or driving drunk, but.... if 26 of us on this forum agreed it was perfectly fine/justifiable to make moonshine in our basement, or drive 90 mph in a 70 zone, it does not mean that that the law will look the other way when you get caught.
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by JustaShooter »

Just a few friendly reminders:

Concealed means concealed doesn't mean you are actually good at concealing. Most people aren't as good as they think - it's just that most *other* people are clueless and self-absorbed. Locations that have actual trained security are likely to notice.

The charge in Ohio for carrying past a sign into a posted business is Criminal Trespass, a 4th Degree Misdemeanor. The penalty if convicted is a fine of up to $250 and up to 30 days in jail. Thirty. Days.

By carrying into, and spending money at, a posted business, you are arguably helping fund the anti-gun left. Why not go elsewhere and take your wallet with you?

Better yet, why not try to educate them before leaving - maybe with an OFCC No Guns = No Money card - and help them to understand that the sign doesn't do what they want (and probably think) it does.
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by qmti »

JustaShooter wrote:Just a few friendly reminders:

Concealed means concealed doesn't mean you are actually good at concealing. Most people aren't as good as they think - it's just that most *other* people are clueless and self-absorbed. Locations that have actual trained security are likely to notice.

The charge in Ohio for carrying past a sign into a posted business is Criminal Trespass, a 4th Degree Misdemeanor. The penalty if convicted is a fine of up to $250 and up to 30 days in jail. Thirty. Days.

By carrying into, and spending money at, a posted business, you are arguably helping fund the anti-gun left. Why not go elsewhere and take your wallet with you?

Better yet, why not try to educate them before leaving - maybe with an OFCC No Guns = No Money card - and help them to understand that the sign doesn't do what they want (and probably think) it does.
JustaShooteer summarized it very well. And most businesses that do post nowadays are anti-gun and would push for a Criminal Trespass charge if you are caught. Why add more misery to your life,there's enough stuff out there now for that. Take your money elsewhere.
westsidebestside
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by westsidebestside »

JustaShooter wrote: The charge in Ohio for carrying past a sign into a posted business is Criminal Trespass, a 4th Degree Misdemeanor. The penalty if convicted is a fine of up to $250 and up to 30 days in jail. Thirty. Days.
Just curious, does this group or any of the others have statistics on the number of prosecutions, convictions, typical penalties imposed, etc.?

On topic, there will be times where I'll go to business B or C instead of A because of the posting. Other times I'll risk going in without my gun. Other times I'll take the very small risk of being caught and carry anyway. Life tends to be situation-specific.
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

westsidebestside wrote: Just curious, does this group or any of the others have statistics on the number of prosecutions, convictions, typical penalties imposed, etc.?...
Two of my CHL students had 'improper handling' issues, but not actually 'ignoring the sign'. One had to forfeit his handgun, one didn't. The judges in both cases recommended the defendant get a CHL.

What I have seen there and in stories on OFCC and other forums is a tendency for the court to assess the maximum fine, time served (if any) and probation.

If you aren't an active 'bad guy', aren't an a-hole to the cops and aren't in northeastern Ohio, I imagine this would be a common theme.
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Thanlon23
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by Thanlon23 »

Here's the way I look at it: I won't carry a gun into a government building, or a school. Those are felonies.

However - a convienent store, grocery store, restaurant, or other places like those I am going to carry. Why? Because no cashier, stock clerk, waitress, or manager is going to protect me and my loved ones. It's not their job, and they have no interest in doing so. The only person who can protect you (and your loved ones) is you. If they find out I'm carrying and ask me to leave, I'll leave (and likely never return).
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by AzRanger »

Does anyone know if it's criminal or civil to ignore the NoGuns signs in Ohio?? :?:
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by JustaShooter »

AzRanger wrote:Does anyone know if it's criminal or civil to ignore the NoGuns signs in Ohio?? :?:
It is criminal - Criminal Trespassing, a 4th Degree Misdemeanor.
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Imcrazy
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by Imcrazy »

I hardly ever see signs in the places I frequent... I generally try to avoid places that are known to be posted, I would not risk a felony charge and ignore the sign just because I disagree with the law....That would really make things rough going forward... It is insane to me that that a private business can post a prohibition of ones rights and that there could be a criminal penalty. I see that as a civil mater myself but, I don't write the laws, just try my best to abide by them...
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by robbo »

Thanlon23 wrote:Here's the way I look at it: I won't carry a gun into a government building, or a school. Those are felonies.

However - a convienent store, grocery store, restaurant, or other places like those I am going to carry. Why? Because no cashier, stock clerk, waitress, or manager is going to protect me and my loved ones. It's not their job, and they have no interest in doing so. The only person who can protect you (and your loved ones) is you. If they find out I'm carrying and ask me to leave, I'll leave (and likely never return).
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by ArmedAviator »

I haven't seen many CPZ signs lately. Every business I go to in recent history has not had an easily findable sign. I do look - I don't (willingly) give my money to those who work against me/us. I think maybe I saw a UPS Store I was about to head into to ship something out. I turned around and went to the local Fedex shipping center at the DAY airport which isn't posted.
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AzRanger
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by AzRanger »

JustaShooter wrote:
AzRanger wrote:Does anyone know if it's criminal or civil to ignore the NoGuns signs in Ohio?? :?:
It is criminal - Criminal Trespassing, a 4th Degree Misdemeanor.

Thanks 8)
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by TSiWRX »

CCIman wrote: Certainly you could get away with it, like shop-lifting, hiring an escort, taking a knife on a plane, or driving drunk....
Hiring an escort is not illegal in Ohio.

Prostitution, however, is.

Wait, why do I know this?! :lol:
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Thanlon23
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by Thanlon23 »

Also - remember a lot of times with the CPZ's, the sign going up is a corporate policy, not the policy of the manager. Often the manager, if you're caught, either won't care as long as you have a CCW OR you'll be asked to leave and as long as you leave nothing more will happen.

And sometimes you can't avoid a CPZ. If you want to go out to eat, you're likely going to run into one. If you drive, you need gas. Sometimes you have to run inside for something. Maybe there's just more of them up here where I live, I don't know.

Several years ago at a Cracker Barrel here in the Cleveland area a man walked in after his wife told her he was leaving her and shot her and I believe their daughter (who was helping her mom leave her) dead, using what I believe was a shotgun. The cops shot him after he refused to put down the gun outside of the store.

I believe the store was a CPZ at the time (no idea if it still is), but that sign didn't save the lives of those women. Maybe if someone inside would have been CCing, the only person dead would have been the husband.
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Re: Ignore The Sign Movement?

Post by JustaShooter »

Thanlon23 wrote:And sometimes you can't avoid a CPZ.


Other than government facilities, you always have a choice. You may not like the choice, but it is there.
Thanlon23 wrote:If you want to go out to eat, you're likely going to run into one. If you drive, you need gas. Sometimes you have to run inside for something.

I rarely see them on restaurants - and if I do, it is time for a different restaurant. If I need something from a convenience store when I stop for fuel and it is posted (never seen one, but I suppose they exist), go somewhere else to pay too much for whatever you want.
Thanlon23 wrote:Maybe there's just more of them up here where I live, I don't know.
Could be, but once you know what is and is not posted, you adjust your life to avoid the posted businesses. No need to break the law - or fund anti-gun businesses.
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