Public Libraries

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JustaShooter
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by JustaShooter »

AzRanger wrote:All the libraries I've been to have No guns signs! :x
Considering they are almost certainly considered government facilities, they are prohibited places by law and the signage is required.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote:
AzRanger wrote:All the libraries I've been to have No guns signs! :x
Considering they are almost certainly considered government facilities, they are prohibited places by law and the signage is required.
But, no proscribed penalty on the people who work there if they fail to do so. Not much of a requirement without some kind of enforcement teeth. I know you two are well aware of that by the way.
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JustaShooter
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by JustaShooter »

Brian D. wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
AzRanger wrote:All the libraries I've been to have No guns signs! :x
Considering they are almost certainly considered government facilities, they are prohibited places by law and the signage is required.
But, no proscribed penalty on the people who work there if they fail to do so. Not much of a requirement without some kind of enforcement teeth. I know you two are well aware of that by the way.
Oh, sure - but, you know what? Seems to me that after March 21st, any government facilities that aren't posted could reasonably be considered OK to carry, no?
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by JediSkipdogg »

JustaShooter wrote:Oh, sure - but, you know what? Seems to me that after March 21st, any government facilities that aren't posted could reasonably be considered OK to carry, no?
No. Read the ordinance again... You may not carry in...

Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of this section, unless the governing body with authority over the building has enacted a statute, ordinance, or policy that permits a licensee to carry a concealed handgun into the building;

Good luck finding those statutes, ordinances, and policies. I can find Blue Ash ordinances pretty easy. I can't tell you where to find West Chester Township or Hamilton County. Oh wait, I don't think they publicly post them. (I could be wrong, but many years ago they didn't besides when they were voting on them. Once passed, it's not like they were recorded online.)

So after March 21, it's still off limits, regardless of posting, unless they have passed a statute, ordinance, or policy allowing it.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by curmudgeon3 »

Looks like those law-breakers who use the Post Office drive-thru mail depository in the parking lot to drop off mail while carrying in their car will still be under scrutiny.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by JustaShooter »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Oh, sure - but, you know what? Seems to me that after March 21st, any government facilities that aren't posted could reasonably be considered OK to carry, no?
No. Read the ordinance again... You may not carry in...

Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of this section, unless the governing body with authority over the building has enacted a statute, ordinance, or policy that permits a licensee to carry a concealed handgun into the building;

Good luck finding those statutes, ordinances, and policies. I can find Blue Ash ordinances pretty easy. I can't tell you where to find West Chester Township or Hamilton County. Oh wait, I don't think they publicly post them. (I could be wrong, but many years ago they didn't besides when they were voting on them. Once passed, it's not like they were recorded online.)

So after March 21, it's still off limits, regardless of posting, unless they have passed a statute, ordinance, or policy allowing it.
And given what you just said, how are we to know? Seems to me that a *reasonable person* would think that if there is *no sign*, that would be a good indication that they have passed an ordinance or enacted a policy to allow carry since they are otherwise required to post one.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by schmieg »

curmudgeon3 wrote:Looks like those law-breakers who use the Post Office drive-thru mail depository in the parking lot to drop off mail while carrying in their car will still be under scrutiny.
That's totally unrelated as that is a federal misdemeanor, but an Ohio felony.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by JediSkipdogg »

JustaShooter wrote:And given what you just said, how are we to know? Seems to me that a *reasonable person* would think that if there is *no sign*, that would be a good indication that they have passed an ordinance or enacted a policy to allow carry since they are otherwise required to post one.
How are you to know now? The City of Montgomery is posted as required by 2923.1212. Say they replace their doors tomorrow and it takes them a few days to order new stickers or they simply don't replace them. Does that mean you can legally carry in their building starting tomorrow?

The answer is still no and you are just suppose to know. The word knowingly is in there, but remember, that does not blanketly mean you had to know. It means behavior that the average person would have known. And since one is required to read the AG handbook and it says government buildings are off limits. A building with a sign out front that says "City of Montgomery" pretty much gives away that it is a government building, so you really have no defense. Remember, the blanket ban comes first, so all are off limits UNLESS they allow. Assuming no sign does not equal allow.

Now, if 2923.1212 can be modified to say that, then sure. One would have a good case. But when they passed SB199 they didn't think to modify 2923.1212 to say signage is only required on buildings for government agencies that are restricting carry. If they did that, then it would be a good case.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by Brian D. »

Kentucky, you look a little better to me every day.
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Re: Public Libraries

Post by glocksmith »

Brian D. wrote:Kentucky, you look a little better to me every day.
I've got 2 homes and 12 acres in KY and about all it is good for is reminding me of how much it sucks living here in Cincinasty :?
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
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