Goddard’s Law

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hardwarz
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Goddard’s Law

Post by hardwarz »

With Goddard’s Law in effect, how does that affect self defense?

I don't live in a good neighborhood in Akron. There have been dead dogs found, presumably by dog fighting. Once in a while, pit bulls get loose and run the neighborhood.

I've had my dog attacked by a neighbor's dog and at the time, considered drawing my weapon because my wife was in between them. If it weren't for the owner's kid being there trying to grab her dog, I don't know what I would have done.

With that being said, I didn't see a provision in Goddard's law that specifies self defense against an animal attack... Am I missing something?

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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by WY_Not »

Self defense against a dog attack is already covered by other law. Unless this new one changes 955.28, "a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person" is still a target. 955.25 is fairly broad on when a dog becomes a target.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by hardwarz »

OK. Thanks.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by AzRanger »

I'd be in fear of my life if attacked by a large menacing dog, so isn't that the same as being in fear of your life when being attacked by a large menacing human?? :roll:
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by pirateguy191 »

AzRanger wrote:I'd be in fear of my life if attacked by a large menacing dog, so isn't that the same as being in fear of your life when being attacked by a large menacing human?? :roll:
No. There is certain criteria that must be met in Ohio to use deadly force in self defense against a human. Against a dog, that approaches in a menacing fashion, not so much.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by pirateguy191 »

hardwarz wrote:


I've had my dog attacked by a neighbor's dog and at the time, considered drawing my weapon because my wife was in between them. If it weren't for the owner's kid being there trying to grab her dog, I don't know what I would have done.



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Just remember, you cannot legally shoot a dog that is attacking your dog or cat in Ohio........unless it's a police dog and you are a police officer.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/955.28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by AzRanger »

pirateguy191 wrote:
AzRanger wrote:I'd be in fear of my life if attacked by a large menacing dog, so isn't that the same as being in fear of your life when being attacked by a large menacing human?? :roll:
No. There is certain criteria that must be met in Ohio to use deadly force in self defense against a human. Against a dog, that approaches in a menacing fashion, not so much.

I disagree, if you fear for your life coming from an attacking human you have the right to defend yourself. No other "criteria" is needed!
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by WestonDon »

Actually there is other criteria. They are spelled out pretty clearly in the AG's handbook for concealed carry licensees. Most who read this are intimately familiar with them so I won't go into detail. It never hurts to refresh one's familiarity with that publication.

On another rather nitpicky point, it doesn't really matter if you are in fear for your life. It matters if a judge and/or jury thinks a reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by pirateguy191 »

AzRanger wrote:
pirateguy191 wrote:
AzRanger wrote:I'd be in fear of my life if attacked by a large menacing dog, so isn't that the same as being in fear of your life when being attacked by a large menacing human?? :roll:
No. There is certain criteria that must be met in Ohio to use deadly force in self defense against a human. Against a dog, that approaches in a menacing fashion, not so much.

I disagree, if you fear for your life coming from an attacking human you have the right to defend yourself. No other "criteria" is needed!
You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you're correct.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by JustaShooter »

pirateguy191 wrote:
AzRanger wrote:
pirateguy191 wrote:AzRanger wrote: "I'd be in fear of my life if attacked by a large menacing dog, so isn't that the same as being in fear of your life when being attacked by a large menacing human?? :roll:"

No. There is certain criteria that must be met in Ohio to use deadly force in self defense against a human. Against a dog, that approaches in a menacing fashion, not so much.

I disagree, if you fear for your life coming from an attacking human you have the right to defend yourself. No other "criteria" is needed!
You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you're correct.
Exactly, pirateguy191. There are three elements that must be met:
http://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattor ... dly-force/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
in State v. Melchior, 56 Ohio St. 2d 15 (1978), the Ohio Supreme Court established the elements of self-defense in a case where the accused actually used deadly force. There, the Ohio Supreme Court held that the accused who used deadly force must show: (1) that he was not at fault in creating the situation giving rise to the affray; (2) that he had a bona fide belief that he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, and that his only means of escape from such danger was the use of such force; and (3) he did not violate any duty to retreat to avoid the danger.
Also, the 2nd element has a bit more to it than simply believing your life is in danger, there must be reasonable grounds to do so:
In Marts v. State, 26 Ohio St. 162 (1875), for example, the Ohio Supreme Court held that the use of deadly force is justifiable when a person has a honest belief, and reasonable grounds to believe, even if mistaken, that he is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, and that his only means of escape will be by taking the life of his assailant.
And of course, since Ohio is the one remaining state where self defense is an affirmative defense, *you* must prove you met the elements required.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by pk47 »

JustaShooter wrote:And of course, since Ohio is the one remaining state where self defense is an affirmative defense, *you* must prove you met the elements required.
And that would the one thing I wish we could change about Ohio, more than anything else, including duty to notify. The other 49 are better in this regard.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

pk47 wrote: And that would the one thing I wish we could change about Ohio, more than anything else, including duty to notify. The other 49 are better in this regard.
Have you called your state Representative and Senator about this? Seriously.

When you talk to them (or, more likely, their aides), say something like:
Forty-nine states require a prosecutor to disprove a claim of self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt. Ohio, however, still requires the defendant to prove self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence.

Why are we the only state that doesn't believe in self-defense?
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

pirateguy191 wrote:Just remember, you cannot legally shoot a dog that is attacking your dog or cat in Ohio........unless it's a police dog and you are a police officer.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/955.28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The law doesn't say that you cannot shoot a dog attacking yours. It says you're allowed to kill one attacking one of your animals that is not a dog or cat. It doesn't say you can't, just that you aren't covered by that law if you do.

Semantics I know, but not long ago a man was cleared by a judge after shooting a dog attacking his own dog. Based on the facts of the incident the judge decided he was justified in protecting his property (dog) from destruction by someone else's property (dog).
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Werz »

WestonDon wrote:Actually there is other criteria. They are spelled out pretty clearly in the AG's handbook for concealed carry licensees. Most who read this are intimately familiar with them so I won't go into detail. It never hurts to refresh one's familiarity with that publication.

On another rather nitpicky point, it doesn't really matter if you are in fear for your life. It matters if a judge and/or jury thinks a reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
And likewise, in this scenario, the question for a judge or jury will be: "Was he in genuine fear of injury, or was he an angry guy who didn't like the dog?"
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by steves 50de »

Werz wrote:
WestonDon wrote:Actually there is other criteria. They are spelled out pretty clearly in the AG's handbook for concealed carry licensees. Most who read this are intimately familiar with them so I won't go into detail. It never hurts to refresh one's familiarity with that publication.

On another rather nitpicky point, it doesn't really matter if you are in fear for your life. It matters if a judge and/or jury thinks a reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
And likewise, in this scenario, the question for a judge or jury will be: "Was he in genuine fear of injury, or was he an angry guy who didn't like the dog?"
Think I will take a bit before shooting, a bit mark proves self defense. :shock: :arrow: :?
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