CCW revoked -- question
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CCW revoked -- question
Hello All,
Around three years ago, I slipped up, had a couple drinks after work and was pulled over on the way home. Against my better judgement, my gun was in my glovebox. As the officer approached, I told him of my gun and I had a couple drinks. Long story short, the officer threw the book at me and charged me with an ovi (.085) and a felony gun charge. I hired a lawyer and the gun charge was dropped to an M1 2923.16(e)(1) - Improper handling of firearm in motor vehicle. I was forced to surrender my firearm and CCW permit. The judge asked when I could get my permit back and the lawyer said he doesn't care if I ever get it back. After reading laws online, i have found I may apply after one year under this charge. Is this true? When looking at the application it asks questions about surrendering a permit but I don't think they apply to this charge. Can somebody lead me in the right direction or who I can talk to regarding this matter. I am willing to pay a lawyer to straighten this out to get my permit back
Thank you in advance.
Around three years ago, I slipped up, had a couple drinks after work and was pulled over on the way home. Against my better judgement, my gun was in my glovebox. As the officer approached, I told him of my gun and I had a couple drinks. Long story short, the officer threw the book at me and charged me with an ovi (.085) and a felony gun charge. I hired a lawyer and the gun charge was dropped to an M1 2923.16(e)(1) - Improper handling of firearm in motor vehicle. I was forced to surrender my firearm and CCW permit. The judge asked when I could get my permit back and the lawyer said he doesn't care if I ever get it back. After reading laws online, i have found I may apply after one year under this charge. Is this true? When looking at the application it asks questions about surrendering a permit but I don't think they apply to this charge. Can somebody lead me in the right direction or who I can talk to regarding this matter. I am willing to pay a lawyer to straighten this out to get my permit back
Thank you in advance.
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
What city are you in or near? Someone here might be able to recommend a good Attorney to assist you.
- pirateguy191
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
Why did the judge ask the lawyer when you could get your license back? Where was this?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps the OP reversed the two parties in the sentence by mistake.pirateguy191 wrote:Why did the judge ask the lawyer when you could get your license back? Where was this?
Good luck and stand fast, true Patriots.
TDwin
TDwin
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
I didn't reverse them. The judge asked that. The lawyer claimed it was part of the plea deal. This all happened in less than a week. I paid for the best lawyer in north east Ohio and feel like I was taken advantage of since it was an easy case for him. This happened in portage county but my CCW permit and residence is Trumbull county.
I don't believe the judge or the lawyer really knew the laws well and then revoking the license was a scare tactic as I was only 26 at the time. They got to keep a 2 month old Kahr CM9 and a custom holster.
I don't believe the judge or the lawyer really knew the laws well and then revoking the license was a scare tactic as I was only 26 at the time. They got to keep a 2 month old Kahr CM9 and a custom holster.
- Werz
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
A Portage County judge has no jurisdiction over your license. The Trumbull County Sheriff has jurisdiction over your license. If the Portage County court took your license, you'll need to get it back because as soon as the Trumbull County Sheriff is notified of the conviction, you'll get a notice to surrender your license to the sheriff within ten days. It will then be suspended, not revoked, for a period of one year from the date of your conviction. You might be prohibited from possessing a firearm if that is a condition of a probation term which lasts longer than the suspension, but the judge has no authority to seize your license, and the judge cannot revoke it pursuant to a negotiated plea. Yeah, I've seen judges who purport to do that, but it doesn't make it legal. Any attorney who entered into such an "agreement" is ignorant of gun laws.
Also, from a lay person's perspective, the "best attorney in the area" is often one with a brash personality and a lot of hype, and quite frequently, someone like that doesn't know diddlysquat about the law.
Also, from a lay person's perspective, the "best attorney in the area" is often one with a brash personality and a lot of hype, and quite frequently, someone like that doesn't know diddlysquat about the law.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
Just so the OP knows, Werz who posted above me is a prosecuting attorney by trade, and he is a great voice for us to have here on the forum. I can't add much other than to say in such legal circumstances as experienced by SHU3, a lawyer who "specializes" in firearms rights cases is the BEST one to have. Trouble is, very few advertise they have that expertise.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
If this is a true statement, then the chosen 'best' attorney in his area doesn't know jack.Werz wrote:A Portage County judge has no jurisdiction over your license. The Trumbull County Sheriff has jurisdiction over your license. .
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
Thank you all for the responses. I should have clarified that the "best lawyer" was recxomendinf. I, however, do not agree with that now. They took my permit and sent it to the Trumbull county sheriff and I got a letter in the mail saying they had it shortly after. I don't believe I have the letter anymore. The question is, how do I go about getting my license back? Do I contact the sheriffs department? Again, thank you all so much.
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
I would think that your attorney would answer your questions since you've already paid him to represent you in this case ?SHU3 wrote:Thank you all for the responses. I should have clarified that the "best lawyer" was recxomendinf. I, however, do not agree with that now. They took my permit and sent it to the Trumbull county sheriff and I got a letter in the mail saying they had it shortly after. I don't believe I have the letter anymore. The question is, how do I go about getting my license back? Do I contact the sheriffs department? Again, thank you all so much.
- catfish86
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
Werz is spot on exactly right. I am not an attorney but I am a trained paralegal with a personal experience of this.
My incident was a road rage incident where I displayed my firearm to scare off an enraged person in a pickup throwing things at my vehicle. The wisdom of doing that was hotly debated for a time so you are welcome to your opinion including if you think I was stupid for doing it. Bottom line, I was convicted in a plea bargain of a misdemeanor violation of the Mishandling of a Firearm in a Motor Vehicle, sentenced to the night I had already spent in jail and one year probation with an aggravated menacing charge dropped (because it was self-defense and I realized the firearm effects of pleading to that). Thanks in large part to this organization, the law I was convicted of was repealed...ie if you touch your firearm while in a motor vehicle even with a license and even in self defense it is a felony, unfortunately about two months after my incident. Background over.
The judge, in the judgment entry, "revoked" my license. Judge was in Summit, I am a Stark resident (license in Stark). In order to make bail I had to turn over several firearms which I later had a buddy store for a year. Werz was spot on. The statute says "THE SHERIFF" shall suspend the license and "THE SHERIFF SHALL" return the license after the period of one year. The judge has no authority the statute did not give them. The important words in the statute are Sheriff, shall, suspend and one year.
Sheriff: If a statute specifies who has authority to do something, another official cannot take it upon themselves to do that. In other words the sheriff, not the judge has authority to suspend the license.
Shall: This is a key statutory word that tells you there is no discretion. If discretion were desired by the legislature, a word such as "may" is used. See the next for the effect in this instance.
Suspend and One Year: When a statute outlines a penalty it is mostly in the form of an upper limit. By saying suspend, the statute generally removes the option of revoking. By saying for one year, the statute says it cannot be longer. In other words, even IF the judge had the authority (which they don't unless they have a signed plea deal specifying it) the judge cannot exceed those penalties.
Finally, by saying the Sheriff SHALL return the license after the suspension, the Sheriff has no discretion in returning it unless you have done something else which bars you from a CHL.
In my own case, I was initially denied my CHL being returned but after writing a letter to appeal the decision and outlining what I just posted, the Sheriff relented and had me pick up my CHL. If you request it and are denied, DO NOT THROW AWAY THE LETTER. It will have information on that sheriff's appeal process which can vary. Carefully read that information and consider hiring an attorney competent in firearms laws. I also had trouble getting back my PA license but also appealed that and won it. I have both in my wallet today.
My incident was a road rage incident where I displayed my firearm to scare off an enraged person in a pickup throwing things at my vehicle. The wisdom of doing that was hotly debated for a time so you are welcome to your opinion including if you think I was stupid for doing it. Bottom line, I was convicted in a plea bargain of a misdemeanor violation of the Mishandling of a Firearm in a Motor Vehicle, sentenced to the night I had already spent in jail and one year probation with an aggravated menacing charge dropped (because it was self-defense and I realized the firearm effects of pleading to that). Thanks in large part to this organization, the law I was convicted of was repealed...ie if you touch your firearm while in a motor vehicle even with a license and even in self defense it is a felony, unfortunately about two months after my incident. Background over.
The judge, in the judgment entry, "revoked" my license. Judge was in Summit, I am a Stark resident (license in Stark). In order to make bail I had to turn over several firearms which I later had a buddy store for a year. Werz was spot on. The statute says "THE SHERIFF" shall suspend the license and "THE SHERIFF SHALL" return the license after the period of one year. The judge has no authority the statute did not give them. The important words in the statute are Sheriff, shall, suspend and one year.
Sheriff: If a statute specifies who has authority to do something, another official cannot take it upon themselves to do that. In other words the sheriff, not the judge has authority to suspend the license.
Shall: This is a key statutory word that tells you there is no discretion. If discretion were desired by the legislature, a word such as "may" is used. See the next for the effect in this instance.
Suspend and One Year: When a statute outlines a penalty it is mostly in the form of an upper limit. By saying suspend, the statute generally removes the option of revoking. By saying for one year, the statute says it cannot be longer. In other words, even IF the judge had the authority (which they don't unless they have a signed plea deal specifying it) the judge cannot exceed those penalties.
Finally, by saying the Sheriff SHALL return the license after the suspension, the Sheriff has no discretion in returning it unless you have done something else which bars you from a CHL.
In my own case, I was initially denied my CHL being returned but after writing a letter to appeal the decision and outlining what I just posted, the Sheriff relented and had me pick up my CHL. If you request it and are denied, DO NOT THROW AWAY THE LETTER. It will have information on that sheriff's appeal process which can vary. Carefully read that information and consider hiring an attorney competent in firearms laws. I also had trouble getting back my PA license but also appealed that and won it. I have both in my wallet today.
God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.
Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.
Gun control is racist.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.
Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.
Gun control is racist.
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
i just read this post.
what is to stop the OP from going out and getting an out of state license (and carrying on it here) if he cant get his ohio license back ???
my thoughts on your post:
i live in portage county. except for a couple by-the-book pds (brady lake, for example - which has young unpaid cops 'training' getting experience for better police jobs).., i have a trouble picturing why they went after you so bad unless they had a reason too (ie. reckless op while dui or driving stupid fast while dui).
my hometown kent police are generally very professional reasonable officers during the day, but they switch into mr. hyde mode once night time hits - the same cop that let you off with a warning will issue you a ticket if you pull the same offense at night type thing.
i was going to guess you were in one of the police state suburb fiefdoms of cleveland - surprised it was portage co this happned in.
portage co judges have a reputation for leniency also
anyways, i am horrified to hear of what happened (if its as you say it happened).
what is to stop the OP from going out and getting an out of state license (and carrying on it here) if he cant get his ohio license back ???
my thoughts on your post:
i live in portage county. except for a couple by-the-book pds (brady lake, for example - which has young unpaid cops 'training' getting experience for better police jobs).., i have a trouble picturing why they went after you so bad unless they had a reason too (ie. reckless op while dui or driving stupid fast while dui).
my hometown kent police are generally very professional reasonable officers during the day, but they switch into mr. hyde mode once night time hits - the same cop that let you off with a warning will issue you a ticket if you pull the same offense at night type thing.
i was going to guess you were in one of the police state suburb fiefdoms of cleveland - surprised it was portage co this happned in.
portage co judges have a reputation for leniency also
anyways, i am horrified to hear of what happened (if its as you say it happened).
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: CCW revoked -- question
Probably nothing.jinxer wrote: what is to stop the OP from going out and getting an out of state license (and carrying on it here) if he cant get his ohio license back ???
Now, if their application asks if you have another carry license that is under suspension, it wouldn't be valid.
Well, maybe DUI while armed was just a bit too much for the officer.jinxer wrote:" ...i have a trouble picturing why they went after you so bad unless they had a reason too (ie. reckless op while dui or driving stupid fast while dui)..."
"...portage co judges have a reputation for leniency also..."
MyWifeSaidYes