WV Provisional Concealed Carry License

[BlueCyclone]

Guys:

I need some help here. My 20 yo daughter has a WV "Provisional" Concealed Carry License. She is traveling to OH a great deal and we are trying to determine if OH recognizes WV's "Provisional" CCW license for 18-20 yo's? The gal in the OH Attorney Generals office is "checking" on this for us.......

Any help would be appreciated. She has had several NRA and other Handgun Classes, to include tactical classes so please stay off of that subject.

Thanks!

Blue Cyclone

[JustaShooter]

Personally, I doubt it since Ohio law regarding recognition of other state license uses the phrase "grants the person the same right to carry a concealed handgun in this state as a person who was issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code". Since 2923.125 requires you to be 21 before a license can be issued, I'm guessing that would apply in this instance. But hey, I'm just a guy on the OFCC forum, the AG office will have a more definitive response. BTW, if they do say it is OK, I'd recommend having it in writing and have her carry it with her while carrying in Ohio...

[JustaShooter]

Oh, and be sure to post back with what you've learned after the AG office gets back with you.

[BlueCyclone]

Ok, here is where "we" believe that we are allowed to carry..... WV states that the "provisional" license is a temporary license until the person turns 21 years of age and is then eligible for the CCW.


This is Ohio's.
109.69 Reciprocity agreement.
(A)

(1) The attorney general shall negotiate and enter into a reciprocity agreement with any other license-issuing state under which a concealed handgun license that is issued by the other state is recognized in this state, except as provided in division (B) of this section, if the attorney general determines that both of the following apply:

(a) The eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for that license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(b) That license-issuing state recognizes a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(2) A reciprocity agreement entered into under division (A)(1) of this section also may provide for the recognition in this state of a concealed handgun license issued on a temporary or emergency basis by the other license-issuing state, if the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for the temporary or emergency license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code and if that license-issuing state recognizes a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.1213 of the Revised Code.

[DontTreadOnMe]

I'm going to disagree with JustaShooter and say it does allow her to carry because OH law has no "substantially similar" provision.

109.69(B)(3)

If, on or after the effective date of this amendment, a person who is not a resident of this state has a valid concealed handgun license that was issued by another license-issuing state, regardless of whether the other license-issuing state has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the attorney general under division (A)(1) of this section, and the person is temporarily in this state, during the time that the person is temporarily in this state the license issued by the other license-issuing state shall be recognized in this state, shall be accepted and valid in this state, and grants the person the same right to carry a concealed handgun in this state as a person who was issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

It states "... as a person who was issued a CHL". A person who was issued a CHL is, by definition, allowed to carry a handgun. The fact that she herself would not be able to be issued a CHL under Ohio law is as immaterial as it would be for someone who had a misdemeanor drug charge from 25 years ago but has their state's carry license because that is not a disqualifier under their state's laws even though it would be under Ohio law.

[JustaShooter]

I'm going to disagree with JustaShooter and say it does allow her to carry because OH law has no "substantially similar" provision.

109.69(B)(3)

If, on or after the effective date of this amendment, a person who is not a resident of this state has a valid concealed handgun license that was issued by another license-issuing state, regardless of whether the other license-issuing state has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the attorney general under division (A)(1) of this section, and the person is temporarily in this state, during the time that the person is temporarily in this state the license issued by the other license-issuing state shall be recognized in this state, shall be accepted and valid in this state, and grants the person the same right to carry a concealed handgun in this state as a person who was issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

It states "... as a person who was issued a CHL". A person who was issued a CHL is, by definition, allowed to carry a handgun. The fact that she herself would not be able to be issued a CHL under Ohio law is as immaterial as it would be for someone who had a misdemeanor drug charge from 25 years ago but has their state's carry license because that is not a disqualifier under their state's laws even though it would be under Ohio law.

And you may well be right.

But, of course it is possibly even *more* tricky because the section you quoted might not be the one that applies - since Ohio has a reciprocity agreement in effect with WV, it might be section (B) (1) that applies which *does* have a "substantially comparable " phrase:

(B)

(1) If, on or after the effective date of this amendment, a person who is a resident of this state has a valid concealed handgun license that was issued by another license-issuing state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the attorney general under division (A)(1) of this section or the attorney general determines that the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for that license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code, the license issued by the other license-issuing state shall be recognized in this state, shall be accepted and valid in this state, and grants the person the same right to carry a concealed handgun in this state as a person who was issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

[DontTreadOnMe]

But, of course it is possibly even *more* tricky because the section you quoted might not be the one that applies - since Ohio has a reciprocity agreement in effect with WV, it might be section (B) (1) that applies which *does* have a "substantially comparable " phrase:

Nice catch, but IMO it doesn't matter. Either (a) there's a valid reciprocity agreement, in which case the WV license is by law valid; or, (b) there is not a valid reciprocity agreement, in which case 109.69(B)(3) applies. The only way this wouldn't be the case is if the OH-WV agreement specifically addresses WV licensees who do not meet OH CHL standards. But it doesn't.

[BlueCyclone]

Guys:

I posted a response right after Just a shooter replied, but is is yet to show up on here and it explains our thoughts also.

[JustaShooter]

But, of course it is possibly even *more* tricky because the section you quoted might not be the one that applies - since Ohio has a reciprocity agreement in effect with WV, it might be section (B) (1) that applies which *does* have a "substantially comparable " phrase:

Nice catch, but IMO it doesn't matter. Either (a) there's a valid reciprocity agreement, in which case the WV license is by law valid; or, (b) there is not a valid reciprocity agreement, in which case 109.69(B)(3) applies. The only way this wouldn't be the case is if the OH-WV agreement specifically addresses WV licensees who do not meet OH CHL standards. But it doesn't.

And again, you could be right - but the WV Provisional licenses were part of a law that passed earlier this year and as such may not be considered part of the reciprocity agreement. Also, the reciprocity agreement itself requires notification of substantial changes to the law, which this arguably qualifies as. Given that, the agreement may be in the process of being re-written.

BTW, I enjoy such discussions, especially when someone like you is providing counter points. FWIW I'm not completely sold on the WV Provisional licenses being invalid in OH, but it sure seems to me that they would be - but ultimately, it will depend on the AG Office. And I am eagerly anticipating their response!

[someguy]

And Welcome blue cyclone!!! Looks like your first post

[Chuck]

Guys:

I posted a response right after Just a shooter replied, but is is yet to show up on here and it explains our thoughts also.

I apologize for that
New members first few posts need to be approved to guard against bots and trolls
I guess nobody was around to approve it

[JustaShooter]

Ok, here is where "we" believe that we are allowed to carry..... WV states that the "provisional" license is a temporary license until the person turns 21 years of age and is then eligible for the CCW.


This is Ohio's.
109.69 Reciprocity agreement.
(A)

(1) The attorney general shall negotiate and enter into a reciprocity agreement with any other license-issuing state under which a concealed handgun license that is issued by the other state is recognized in this state, except as provided in division (B) of this section, if the attorney general determines that both of the following apply:

(a) The eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for that license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(b) That license-issuing state recognizes a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(2) A reciprocity agreement entered into under division (A)(1) of this section also may provide for the recognition in this state of a concealed handgun license issued on a temporary or emergency basis by the other license-issuing state, if the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for the temporary or emergency license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code and if that license-issuing state recognizes a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.1213 of the Revised Code.

Hopefully, the intervening discussion is worthwhile to someone - if nothing else, mental exercise. But in any case, you highlighted one of the very reasons that I believe that section would *not* allow carry in Ohio under the WV Provisional License - issuing a license to someone under 21 would mean the requirements were *not* "substantially comparable" since Ohio specifically only issues licenses, temporary or otherwise, to those 21 and older.

[pirateguy191]

In order to carry under the auspices of reciprocity, you must follow the laws of the state you wish to carry in. In Ohio, you must be 21 to legally carry a handgun.

Am I wrong?

[JustaShooter]

In order to carry under the auspices of reciprocity, you must follow the laws of the state you wish to carry in. In Ohio, you must be 21 to legally carry a handgun.

Am I wrong?

I don't think that is correct - there is no legal way to sell or gift a handgun to someone under 21 in Ohio, but if they can legally possess it they can carry it since there are no laws against it that I can find. So, if someone under 21 in WV has a legal way to acquire a handgun, I believe they can legally possess it when they travel to Ohio, and then could legally carry it - but, only openly, in my non-lawyerly opinion.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Ok, here is where "we" believe that we are allowed to carry..... WV states that the "provisional" license is a temporary license until the person turns 21 years of age and is then eligible for the CCW.

[snip]

(2) A reciprocity agreement entered into under division (A)(1) of this section also may provide for the recognition in this state of a concealed handgun license issued on a temporary or emergency basis by the other license-issuing state, if the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for the temporary or emergency license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code and if that license-issuing state recognizes a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.1213 of the Revised Code.

Hopefully, the intervening discussion is worthwhile to someone - if nothing else, mental exercise. But in any case, you highlighted one of the very reasons that I believe that section would *not* allow carry in Ohio under the WV Provisional License - issuing a license to someone under 21 would mean the requirements were *not* "substantially comparable" since Ohio specifically only issues licenses, temporary or otherwise, to those 21 and older.

Given the above I agree with JustaShooter. If WV specifically refers to their Provisional license as a temporary one then the OH law above applies and the WV provisional license is likely not valid in Ohio.

Of course that's just my opinion. If you hear back from the AG's office I hope you'll tell us what they say.