When Will the Lawmakers Wake Up...

[robbo]

Currently malls, bars, schools, and other public places post signage noting 'no guns' When are they going to wake up and realize most mass shootings,stabbings,terrorist attacks occur in these places more than any other.
The dirtbags know most people will not be carrying in places like this, and attack in these public places.
IMO at least teachers/school employees should be able to carry guns on school grounds.
I know, many will argue there are too many people in these locations and many ccw holders do not have the training to fire in an area full of people without injuring innocent by-standers. Just my 2c, even if its not worth that much. WAKE UP AMERICA!

[Javelin Man]

Preachin' to the choir. Someone give me an "Amen!".

[deanimator]

If you have more sympathy for the terrorists than for their victims, why would you want to do something which would increase the danger to the terrorists and make it less likely for them to succeed in their terrorist acts?

[JediSkipdogg]

The problem is to fully understand this you need to go into the mindset of those individuals. They see the gun as the problem. Remove the gun, and well you don't have a tool for them to use on the innocent. The problem they fail to see is that in the small microscopic gap between the door or property line there is nothing but air that keeps the gun one one side vs the other. Air is an amazing substance, one that generally allows items to move freely through it.

They think people obey the law. If they did, then dang, my small 7.7 square mile processed over 1000 crime reports of nothing last year. They think that air gap will stop them from committing their crime. They fail to see that if they want to stop the crime they must harden the target. The problem is at what cost is a target hardened? Almost everything can become overcome, and much easier than people realize.

So if you talk to them about allowing more guns in and just let a good guy with a gun stop the bad guy with a gun then they don't understand how they know the bad guy before he/she acts. Therefore generally you will still have at least one victim before you know who the bad guy truly is. Is one victim worth the cost of just saying nobody carries and anyone that is spotted is a bad guy?

It's a hard battle and basically one to change a business or lawmaker is just luck.

[Face]

I'm still trying to figure out how it's a lawmakers problem. Pretty much private property and associated rights.

[robbo]

lawmaker, whatever, I think the point is understood? ... I'll still conceal... sign, or no sign (exception being places I KNOW I'll be arrested and charged. such as a government building IE courthouse)

[CCWHolder]

I honestly believe that it is a lack of knowledge in firearms, on both sides.

One side (Those who post the signage) listens to the media and all the PTSD you can get from firing a M4 series weapon, just stupid.

One the other side you have those who have no real formal training, other than the CCW course. There are some CCW institutions that do provide good training, but in my opinion, as an Army Infantryman of 10 years, I think the training that is required by law is laughably minimal. When I went to receive my CCW, I talked to a couple people who have never fired a weapon until they took the CCW course. Then you also have those people who fired a shotgun in their grandfather's backyard since they were 4 years old, who also think that they know anything and everything about a weapon system and how to handle it - overconfident. Unless you have had some sort of military training or police training in addition to your CCW course, in my opinion (Regardless of your background) you still have much to learn and should actively pursue additional training when ever possible. So to get to my point - the untrained populace also contributes to the problem because some actually think that having a weapon makes you invincible, and tend to escalate force immediately to deadly rather than taking a step back, assessing the situation, and determining whether or not to utilize deadly force. That is the other side to it. I may tick some of you off with what I said, but it is my opinion and I'm always open for opposing views.

Regardless, I still think the Killary + M4 PTSD "heroes" are the bigger problem.

[Sneakypete]

lawmaker, whatever, I think the point is understood? ... I'll still conceal... sign, or no sign (exception being places I KNOW I'll be arrested and charged. such as a government building IE courthouse)

This.

Plus which, concealed MEANS concealed. Don't ask, don't tell. What the lemmings don't know can't hurt them.

[WestonDon]

Fifty plus years of demonizing firearms has brought us to this sorry state. It will be a long hard road back. Actually the tide has already begun to turn. Evidence of this is the fact that we are even having this discussion. Heck, even having this forum, this organization, concealed carry licenses is a big step forward. I am pretty sure that every LE officer in the state knows that OC is a legal activity. Whether they choose to acknowledge that fact or not.

Education is the key IMHO. Education of the constituents who elect the lawmakers. Education of the pool of potential jurors who serve on civil trial juries to place liability on responsible parties not those with the deepest pockets.

It is happening but the pace is frustratingly slow. And that is deplorable. (Word of the month)

[robbo]

Fifty plus years of demonizing firearms has brought us to this sorry state. It will be a long hard road back. Actually the tide has already begun to turn. Evidence of this is the fact that we are even having this discussion. Heck, even having this forum, this organization, concealed carry licenses is a big step forward. I am pretty sure that every LE officer in the state knows that OC is a legal activity. Whether they choose to acknowledge that fact or not.

Education is the key IMHO. Education of the constituents who elect the lawmakers. Education of the pool of potential jurors who serve on civil trial juries to place liability on responsible parties not those with the deepest pockets.

It is happening but the pace is frustratingly slow. And that is deplorable. (Word of the month)

'like' <<< there was no like button

[robbo]

lawmaker, whatever, I think the point is understood? ... I'll still conceal... sign, or no sign (exception being places I KNOW I'll be arrested and charged. such as a government building IE courthouse)

This.

Plus which, concealed MEANS concealed. Don't ask, don't tell. What the lemmings don't know can't hurt them.

another 'like'....I think most of us are on the same page

[deanimator]

I'm still trying to figure out how it's a lawmakers problem. Pretty much private property and associated rights.

But not when it comes to smoking...

[WestonDon]

I honestly believe that it is a lack of knowledge in firearms, on both sides.

One side (Those who post the signage) listens to the media and all the PTSD you can get from firing a M4 series weapon, just stupid.

One the other side you have those who have no real formal training, other than the CCW course. There are some CCW institutions that do provide good training, but in my opinion, as an Army Infantryman of 10 years, I think the training that is required by law is laughably minimal. When I went to receive my CCW, I talked to a couple people who have never fired a weapon until they took the CCW course. Then you also have those people who fired a shotgun in their grandfather's backyard since they were 4 years old, who also think that they know anything and everything about a weapon system and how to handle it - overconfident. Unless you have had some sort of military training or police training in addition to your CCW course, in my opinion (Regardless of your background) you still have much to learn and should actively pursue additional training when ever possible. So to get to my point - the untrained populace also contributes to the problem because some actually think that having a weapon makes you invincible, and tend to escalate force immediately to deadly rather than taking a step back, assessing the situation, and determining whether or not to utilize deadly force. That is the other side to it. I may tick some of you off with what I said, but it is my opinion and I'm always open for opposing views.

Regardless, I still think the Killary + M4 PTSD "heroes" are the bigger problem.

Umm... Are you referring to CHL holders, unlicensed but legal open carriers, or the common garden variety hood rat?

As to the rest of your post, I don't disagree with your reasoning but I do disagree with the concept of training required by law. Try applying that to voting.

[WayneB]

Most business owners think in terms of liability and customer satisfaction. If I post a sign, then all of my liability is removed AND the customers are happy because they think nothing bad can happen there. Because, as someone else said, introducing a gun to a situation, any situation, will only make it worse. As an owner I have taken action. I have done something. My customers will be happy and I will be protected.

(Please keep in mind that I don't actually subscribe to any of the above as far as liability & protection. And that what an owner thinks is true is what they act on.

[keepitsimple]

The following is an opinion that I once overheard in a coffee shop lounge regarding another internet forum's rules that may have certain parallels to this subject.

"Don't forget that "legal" isn't the same thing as right, and "illegal" isn't the same thing as wrong. It's just whether an act has been documented as being illegal or not. One can make all kinds of good acts, such as feeding the homeless, illegal while allowing despicable acts, such as civil forfeiture, to be legal.

I've already decided that for this one company's conglomeration of internet message boards, forum rules are moving into a place where they no longer bother to even consider right and wrong, they are merely the expression of power for one faction or another. So, I don't feel bad about ignoring the forum rules. If rules are not about right and wrong, and we have clear evidence that rules are being applied in a discriminatory fashion (that is, applied to some people but not others), then the only thing I need to concern myself with is the risk of being caught; not of the moral need to obey the forum rule.

I'm coming late to that understanding, as millions of people already say, "whatever, I'll do what I want and just try not to get caught." I used to think poorly of these people, now I'm beginning to understand them. Following the forum rules because you're afraid of getting caught is one thing. Following the forum rules because you think it's the right thing to do is another. I won't commit theft or rape, because I'm morally opposed to those actions. At this point, however, the idea that a forum rule will keep me from doing what I think is my right and what the bill of rights confirms as my protected right has passed. If it becomes illegal in this nation to post on an internet forum, I'll just post it illegally. Simple."

Again though, this is only a bad regurgitation of a random stranger's overheard opinion on an unrelated subject pertaining to an internet forum far less sophisticated than the OFCC forums, FWIW. Everyone here follows the forum rules and I wouldn't suggest anyone ever do otherwise.