3 Scenarios...3 Legal opinions

[Funk49]

Recently, a bank here in Geauga County was robbed,which brought to mind...What if I was in that bank,carrying at that moment, and I saw it taking place. Here are 3 scenarios
up for opinion.....

A.......I witness a robber, having gotten the money put in a bag by the teller, retreating to the door. No firearm is sighted at this time. Everybody in the bank is aware that a robbery is in
progress. No "No guns allowed" signs on the door of the bank,so I'm allowed to carry concealed. Am I legally allowed to draw my weapon,point it at the robber, and command "Put your arms in the air!..I'm a CCW holder!"
No shots are fired. The cops come,arrested the robber....robbery thwarted. Could I be charged with ....something?

B.......I witness a robber, having gotten the money put in a bag by the teller, retreating to the door. Everybody in the bank is aware that a robbery is in
progress. No "No guns allowed" signs on the door of the bank,so I'm allowed to carry concealed. A weapon IS used and the teller is terrified. I draw my firearm and say,"Put your arms in the air!..I'm a CCW holder!"
He aims at me,I fire at him. I hit him...robbery is thwarted. Assuming I am not hit and survive,would I be charged with firing my gun at the robber since he used his gun aimed at a teller,threatening her life?

C.......Mind my own business.let the robber go,regardless of the fact he just threatened someone's life with a gun. After all,property is not a reason to shoot at someone.

[docachna]

As to A & B, easy answer.

"Could" you be charged with something ? Of course ! Happens frequently. Would you be convicted ? Hard to say, but it's a question that's expensive for you to answer.

I'm not even addressing the wisdom of your actions. I'm sure many others will weigh in on that, and on the propriety of C.

[WayneB]

A) Since he is retreating to the door and no weapon is shown, I let him go. There are cameras, most likely an alarm has already been tripped, insurance is in effect, etc. Further, of the last few attempted robberies in my neck of the woods, the robbers were caught shortly after.

Those way more versed in the law than I can speak to the legality of using deadly force to stop an unarmed robbery. (Guessing you'd be considered a hero by most, but you asked about legalities.)

B) A much more difficult scenario. Is there cover to be had, etc.? Generally speaking, I don't think I would ever yell "halt....." to a person where I actually saw the gun. I'd just shoot them if I had clear lines. Would then getting shot allow the perp to squeeze off a shot directly at the teller they were pointing at? Oops. If instead they turned to me (after hearing me start yelling), with the gun in their hand, merely turning toward me would, I think, allow them to get a shot off while I was still completing my sentence. If the perp does shoot, I would expect to then be blamed (by some) since "he wasn't going to shoot anybody -- he just wanted to scare them....".

I've read stories where similar scenarios turned out well and no charges were filed. Perp was stopped or didn't shoot, etc.

[qmti]

A & B is all about liability and how much money you have saved for retirement. Only if the robber opens fire first would I engage. Then it's proof positive that I needed to engage. Otherwise I have already made the decision when I decided to carry that ONLY if my life was in jeopardy would I respond with lethal force. May sound selfish but there are too many lawyers out there looking for a paycheck in today's society. Just look at the commercials on TV every night. Case comes before a liberal judge and your sunk.

[Gramps]

A & B is all about liability and how much money you have saved for retirement. Only if the robber opens fire first would I engage. Then it's proof positive that I needed to engage. Otherwise I have already made the decision when I decided to carry that ONLY if my life was in jeopardy would I respond with lethal force. May sound selfish but there are too many lawyers out there looking for a paycheck in today's society. Just look at the commercials on TV every night. Case comes before a liberal judge and your sunk.

I have thought and talked with friends about what I would do in a bank robbery.

Most bank robberies no one is hurt. Think I would play the odds and be ready if the robber opens fire also but will never really know until I am faced with the situation.....

Gramps

[WestonDon]

I think as soon as you draw and start shouting you are in legal jeopardy. My reasoning is that if there is imminent threat it's time for shooting not shouting. No imminent threat, no draw. Low ready MAYBE. (Officer I feared for my life and the lives of the other people in the bank so I told him to raise his arms and that I had a CHL license and then I shot him.) I know that sounds ridiculous when phrased that way but that's nothing compared to the way an unfriendly prosecutor might phrase it.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Why the fudge would you yell anything, let alone, "...I'm a CCW holder!"

[schmieg]

Why the fudge would you yell anything, let alone, "...I'm a CCW holder!"

If there is an imminent threat to an innocent's life or limb (including yours), shoot. Keep your mouth shut, it just wastes time and gives the prosecutor something to play with if you are in a bad jurisdiction. Keep your mouth shut afterwards as well and tell the police you are upset and need to go to the hospital and that you will cooperate with them after you have spoken with your attorney. Probably someone else will have called 911, so call your attorney while waiting for the police.

If not imminent threat, keep your mouth shut and your gun hidden and be a good witness when the police arrive.

[SMMAssociates]

IMHO, unless you or a loved one (or close friend) is in immediate danger, just be a good witness....

Time was that you could take action otherwise, but in most areas you'll end up like Zimmerman....

Regards,

[Funk49]

Why the fudge would you yell anything, let alone, "...I'm a CCW holder!"

I'd say that in case there was another CCW in the bank and they'd think I was also a bad guy. Also to alert the employees, I'm on their side.

[AlanM]

I've discussed this very scenario (except armed robbery with a firearm visible) with a retired LEO and a current local LEO at my daughter's dining table.
I said I would warn the robber.
(Actually I stated that I would ask the goblin if he believed in God because he was about to meet him if he didn't drop the gun.)
People that have met me know I tend to be a "wise donkey" (or words to that effect).

Both of them said they would draw and fire without saying a word.

[carmen fovozzo]

Alan. You are a wise donkey in a GOOD way...

[SeanC]

. . . draw my weapon,point it at the robber, and command "Put your arms in the air!..I'm a CCW holder!"

You'll be laughed at and ridiculed by me.

[M-Quigley]

There is something you should possibly consider in these scenarios, besides the legal issues. (and by legal I mean criminal not civil) Anytime you engage an armed robber there is the chance the robber is not going to merely comply, and you could be involved in a gunfight. Even if you happen to hit the BG first, that doesn't mean the BG isn't going to be able to shoot. BG's don't always automatically fall down like in the movies from a torso shot. Sometimes they don't seem to react at all right afterwards, or not in a way the defender can tell at the time. Innocent bystanders could get hit, from either you or the BG. The BG might have an accomplice in the bank that you are unaware of, until you draw your gun.

Plus, unless you personally are getting robbed, it's not even your money, it's the banks. They have procedures in place, and it's rare that a bank robber actually harms a compliant bank employee. They usually want to get in and get out. The bank management is probably not going to give you an "attaboy" for doing something to put their employees at even more risk than not intervening, particularly if someone gets hurt. The fact that it might be the BG's fault isn't going to matter much to the victim.(s) It doesn't mean you should never intervene no matter what the situation at the time is, the BG might be doing something to indicate that it's imminent that someone innocent person is going to be harmed. Robbery situations can vary based on the actions of the BG at that moment. These are just things to consider.

[gaptrick]

Why the fudge would you yell anything, let alone, "...I'm a CCW holder!"

I'd say that in case there was another CCW in the bank and they'd think I was also a bad guy. Also to alert the employees, I'm on their side.

Just get one of those nifty badges... they're all shiny and EVERYTHING....