Another Disorderly Conduct Question

This forum is for discussion of general issues regarding Concealed Carry in your everyday life. This forum is not intended to be political or for discussing legislation.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

h@wk3y3
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:36 am

Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by h@wk3y3 »

Good Morning,

I have spent most the evening searching through the threads reading everything about "2903.21 (M1) - AGGRAVATED MENACING" and "2917.11A M4-DISORDERLY CONDUCT" but I am not totally sure of the answer, or even what to ask the lawyer and Sheriff.

Here is the background:

Two guys came to my home under the guise of carpet cleaners. They tried to force their way in my home, by taking the screen door out of the hands of my son and trying to step into the home shortly after I left for work. My son refused, told them to leave, shut the main door, but they came to the door one additional time and then sat in our driveway for about ten minutes before leaving. My wife called me on the phone, I turned around, and headed home. When I arrived they were gone, driving back to work I seen the van parked in the gas station where I stopped to tell them to stay away. They got very nervous, arguing they not there (later they admitted to being at my home), and looked VERY shady. At which point I did raise my voice and yell at them to stay the hell away form my home, but I never threaten to kill them as they claimed. I was raked over the coals by the sheriff who failed to do a proper investigation and lacked witness statements which would have backed my story up. Understanding the fact I should have just continued driving, and hind sight always being 20/20, there was additional reasons I'm not going into on here that led to my choice to stop. Good or bad I admitted to screaming at them in the gas station, but denied ever threatening them.

I am a big supporter of law enforcement at all levels, and have a number of friends and associates in law enforcement. It was this one sheriff who rushed to judgement and failed to do a proper investigation, aided by my big mouth.

Needless to say, I was originally charged with "2903.21 (M1) - AGGRAVATED MENACING". I got a very good attorney and provided him the research I conducted on these two "carpet cleaners" making the claims, as well as the failures of the sheriff with investigation. I also provide character references (who called the prosector directly) with my background. When presented with all this information the prosector dropped the charges to "2917.11A M4-DISORDERLY CONDUCT". No subsections were or are listed in the court records. The day it was finished, May 2016, I paid all fines and the case was finished.

All officers; friends, associates, and even a couple who don't know me, said this should have never been "2903.21 (M1) - AGGRAVATED MENACING" to begin with, but under Ohio law it does fall under a Disorderly Conduct, in the general sense.

No weapons were involved, nor were any of my weapons removed from my home.

My CCW was suspended shortly after the original charge, as one would expect. However it expired while the case was pending. After the case was finished, I called the sheriff to request my license back and they said to complete a "Renewal" form and process, then wait for the results.

Couple things I have questions about...

(I will be contacting my attorney but I want to make sure I understand what I am talking about)

Does this prevent my from owning and purchasing firearms?

I have the typical concerns about questions 9 and 10, which is where I'm confused. All threads here discuss "2917.11A M4-DISORDERLY CONDUCT" as it relates to Domestic Violence, which in this case it wasn't. I assume since the original charge was related to violence I have to answer "Yes" to them both questions.
  • Is this correct?

    Does this prevent me from getting my CCW back all together?

    Are there other items and details I should be aware of prior to submitting my application?

    Is there anything I should be aware of before purchasing any additional firearms?
I appreciate the advice and once I have a better understanding I will double check with the lawyer on my case. I am just looking to get a clearer understanding of what I am facing moving forward.
User avatar
sd790
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:40 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by sd790 »

h@wk3y3 wrote: ...I will be contacting my attorney...
There's your answer.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

I'm assuming you are not CURRENTLY under indictment for, or otherwise charged with any crime.

And you have been convicted of or pled guilty to ONLY Disorderly Conduct.

And the Disorderly Conduct was NOT reduced from a charge of Domestic Violence.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you have any disqualifiers or disabilty.

You should be able to both purchase firearms AND renew your CHL.
MyWifeSaidYes
h@wk3y3
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:36 am

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by h@wk3y3 »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:I'm assuming you are not CURRENTLY under indictment for, or otherwise charged with any crime.

And you have been convicted of or pled guilty to ONLY Disorderly Conduct.

And the Disorderly Conduct was NOT reduced from a charge of Domestic Violence.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you have any disqualifiers or disabilty.

You should be able to both purchase firearms AND renew your CHL.
I believe I understand your comments and agree with the assessment. Leaving both my answers to 9 and 10 would be yes, but I should be good to go. My attorney is going to call me back on Monday to discuss it.

Just to be clear, the following is the information from the online docket, minus personal information:
  • 05-23-2016 DISPOSITION REPORTED TO BCI
    05-17-2016 PAID IN FULL
    05-17-2016 SUPPLEMENTAL ORDER FILED FINE AND COST HEARING SET FOR 07-18-2016
    05-17-2016 IT IS SO ORDERED BY JUDGE <OMITTED>
    05-17-2016 FURTHER ON THE FOLLOWING ORDER(S): NO CONTACT WITH VICTIM(S);
    05-17-2016 DEFENDANT IS CREDITED WITH 1 DAYS SERVED IN LIEU OF DAYS.
    05-17-2016 IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT ALL BUT 1 DAYS ARE SUSPENDED ON CONDITION OF DEFENDANT'S GOOD BEHAVIOR FOR TWO YEARS
    05-17-2016 IT IS THE SENTENCE OF THE COURT: COUNT #1 DISORDERLY CONDUCT 50.00 FINE AND COSTS 30 DAYS IN JAIL.
    05-17-2016 THE COURT FINDS THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.
    05-17-2016 DEFENDANT ENTERED A PLEA OF NO CONTEST
    05-17-2016 ON THIS DAY THE DEFENDANT APPEARED WITH <OMITTED> ATTORNEY OF RECORD
    05-17-2016 COUNT #1 AGGRAVATED MENACING (M1) AMENDED TO DISORDERLY CONDUCT (M4)
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 3436
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by cashman966 »

h@wk3y3 wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:I'm assuming you are not CURRENTLY under indictment for, or otherwise charged with any crime.

And you have been convicted of or pled guilty to ONLY Disorderly Conduct.

And the Disorderly Conduct was NOT reduced from a charge of Domestic Violence.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you have any disqualifiers or disabilty.

You should be able to both purchase firearms AND renew your CHL.
I believe I understand your comments and agree with the assessment. Leaving both my answers to 9 and 10 would be yes, but I should be good to go. My attorney is going to call me back on Monday to discuss it.

Just to be clear, the following is the information from the online docket, minus personal information:
  • 05-23-2016 DISPOSITION REPORTED TO BCI
    05-17-2016 PAID IN FULL
    05-17-2016 SUPPLEMENTAL ORDER FILED FINE AND COST HEARING SET FOR 07-18-2016
    05-17-2016 IT IS SO ORDERED BY JUDGE <OMITTED>
    05-17-2016 FURTHER ON THE FOLLOWING ORDER(S): NO CONTACT WITH VICTIM(S);
    05-17-2016 DEFENDANT IS CREDITED WITH 1 DAYS SERVED IN LIEU OF DAYS.
    05-17-2016 IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT ALL BUT 1 DAYS ARE SUSPENDED ON CONDITION OF DEFENDANT'S GOOD BEHAVIOR FOR TWO YEARS
    05-17-2016 IT IS THE SENTENCE OF THE COURT: COUNT #1 DISORDERLY CONDUCT 50.00 FINE AND COSTS 30 DAYS IN JAIL.
    05-17-2016 THE COURT FINDS THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.
    05-17-2016 DEFENDANT ENTERED A PLEA OF NO CONTEST
    05-17-2016 ON THIS DAY THE DEFENDANT APPEARED WITH <OMITTED> ATTORNEY OF RECORD
    05-17-2016 COUNT #1 AGGRAVATED MENACING (M1) AMENDED TO DISORDERLY CONDUCT (M4)
Why would you answer yes to questions 9 or 10? 2917.11 is not a misdemeanor offense of violence.

Further if your license is less than 30 days expired I would ask the sheriff to return it as it is still valid within the 30 day grace period.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

If you remove the record sealing language and the delinquent child language, the questions look a little simpler:
(9) Are you under indictment for, or otherwise charged with, or have you been convicted of or pleaded guilty to, within three years of the date of this application, a misdemeanor that is an offense of violence or the offense of possessing a revoked or suspended concealed handgun license?

(10) Are you under indictment for or otherwise charged with, or have you been convicted of or pleaded guilty to, within 10 years of the date of this application, resisting arrest?

First off, you were not charged or convicted of 'Resisting Arrest', so you can say "NO" to Question 10.


Now look at Question 9 with the understanding that "Disorderly Conduct" is NOT an offense of violence.

As you are not CURRENTLY charged with or under indictment for ANY crime, and you were only convicted of "Disorderly Conduct", you can answer "NO" to Question 9.

But feel free to pay a lawyer to tell you the same thing if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside. :)

A southeastern Ohio Sheriff once tried denying people their CHL by claiming that being "convicted of" something was the same as being "charged with" something. Not only was he wrong, HE is the one sitting in jail right now. Literally. Actually in jail.

Say "NO" to Section III, Questions 9 & 10.
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

cashman966 wrote:...

Further if your license is less than 30 days expired I would ask the sheriff to return it as it is still valid within the 30 day grace period.
Expired means it isn't valid. Ohio simply honors it within the 30-day grace period. It is NOT honored in any other state during that grace period.

I DO agree that the Sheriff should give it back so that he may USE that grace period, but I don't know if a judge would order an expired license returned.
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
gaptrick
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:02 pm
Location: Cuyahoga/Lake Counties

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by gaptrick »

Isn't this a terrific forum?
Unarmed people are vulnerable people, and criminal predators prey upon them.

AWRHawkin


"A story about a bird stealing a knife from a crime scene...and we're more interested in hearing about the Canadian with a gun.
Man, we need to get lives."
MWSY
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by Brian D. »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
A southeastern Ohio Sheriff once tried denying people their CHL by claiming that being "convicted of" something was the same as being "charged with" something. Not only was he wrong, HE is the one sitting in jail right now. Literally. Actually in jail.
Timing is everything. Before that guy was elected, I had an unpleasant experience with a deputy in that same county. If that now-incarcerated sheriff had been in office then, I would maybe now be locked up myself. For lawful open carry in an empty state park.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 3436
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by cashman966 »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
cashman966 wrote:...

Further if your license is less than 30 days expired I would ask the sheriff to return it as it is still valid within the 30 day grace period.
Expired means it isn't valid. Ohio simply honors it within the 30-day grace period. It is NOT honored in any other state during that grace period.

I DO agree that the Sheriff should give it back so that he may USE that grace period, but I don't know if a judge would order an expired license returned.

Well the ORC says the expired license is valid during the grace period. Other States that word their laws as "unexpired" and not "valid" may not honor the grace period, but if the standard is carry on a "valid" licence they should honor it. Ohio law refers to a "valid" licenses. I myself would not carry out of state on the grace period.
2923.126(A) A concealed handgun license that is issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code shall expire five years after the date of issuance. A licensee who has been issued a license under that section shall be granted a grace period of thirty days after the licensee's license expires during which the licensee's license remains valid. Except as provided in divisions (B) and (C) of this section, a licensee who has been issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code may carry a concealed handgun anywhere in this state if the licensee also carries a valid license and valid identification when the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun. The licensee shall give notice of any change in the licensee's residence address to the sheriff who issued the license within forty-five days after that change.
2923.12(F)(2) If a person being arrested for a violation of division (A)(2) of this section promptly produces a valid concealed handgun license, and if at the time of the violation the person was not knowingly in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, the officer shall not arrest the person for a violation of that division. If the person is not able to promptly produce any concealed handgun license and if the person is not in a place described in that section, the officer may arrest the person for a violation of that division, and the offender shall be punished as follows:
Last edited by cashman966 on Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

cashman966 wrote:...
Well the ORC says the expired license is valid during the grace period...
I stand corrected (actually, I'm sitting :P ).

Now I wonder how other states would handle that.
MyWifeSaidYes
mreising
Posts: 6274
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:07 pm
Location: Warren County

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by mreising »

In addition, the expired license is proof of having once met the training requirements when it is time to renew. He should request the expired license be returned.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

mreising wrote:In addition, the expired license is proof of having once met the training requirements when it is time to renew. He should request the expired license be returned.
Mark R. for the win !!
MyWifeSaidYes
h@wk3y3
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:36 am

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by h@wk3y3 »

Well they conveniently delayed answers to questions and paperwork to exceed the 30 day grace period, but did tell me to file a renewal process. However the renewal process "may" be denied on the grounds the 30 days has past. Meaning I would be required to attend another training course. Which honestly isn't a big deal since it's about $50-$75 from a few instructors I know. I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row so they can't come back on me.
User avatar
SeanC
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 2519
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Springboro, Ohio

Re: Another Disorderly Conduct Question

Post by SeanC »

h@wk3y3 wrote:It was this one sheriff who rushed to judgement and failed to do a proper investigation, aided by my big mouth.
Probably nothing wrong with the Sheriff's investigation if you admitted to facts sufficient to support the charge. It sounds like you're acknowledging some fault there, and that's good! You get to learn a lesson on not giving on-scene statements to police, and you get to learn it under relatively minor circumstances. Don't make statements without counsel, or at the very least, without giving yourself ample opportunity to calm down and reflect on what you're going to say. The number of criminal charges that involve a statement by a defendant is absolutely staggering; you really would be amazed.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.
Post Reply