CC License not returned

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Garon
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CC License not returned

Post by Garon »

A friend had charges reduced to disorderly conduct from three other misdemeanor charges. Medina county held the License but now refuses to return license. Anyone can help with this?
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Morne
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Morne »

Garon wrote:A friend had charges reduced to disorderly conduct from three other misdemeanor charges. Medina county held the License but now refuses to return license. Anyone can help with this?
Guessing one of those original charges was for domestic violence?
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Garon
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Garon »

Morne wrote:
Garon wrote:A friend had charges reduced to disorderly conduct from three other misdemeanor charges. Medina county held the License but now refuses to return license. Anyone can help with this?
Guessing one of those original charges was for domestic violence?
His charges were all dropped except disorderly. His pistol was returned but Medina county is keeping his ccl.
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Morne
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Morne »

Garon wrote:
Morne wrote:
Garon wrote:A friend had charges reduced to disorderly conduct from three other misdemeanor charges. Medina county held the License but now refuses to return license. Anyone can help with this?
Guessing one of those original charges was for domestic violence?
His charges were all dropped except disorderly. His pistol was returned but Medina county is keeping his ccl.
Didn't answer the question.

What were the original charges? Link to county clerk of courts entry?
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Garon,

If one of his original charges was "Domestic Violence", it could have been reduced to "Disorderly Conduct".

If that happened, he should not have gotten his gun back, let alone his CHL.

If the "Disorderly Conduct" charge was one of the original charges, there is no reason for the Sheriff to keep his CHL.

Your friend may simply ask the judge to have the Sheriff return his CHL. Sometimes it's just that easy. Other times you may have to formally have your lawyer file a motion with the judge.
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JustaShooter
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If one of his original charges was "Domestic Violence", it could have been reduced to "Disorderly Conduct".

If that happened, he should not have gotten his gun back, let alone his CHL.
Could you elaborate on this a bit? I always thought it depended on what you were convicted of, not what you were charged with.
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by JediSkipdogg »

JustaShooter wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If one of his original charges was "Domestic Violence", it could have been reduced to "Disorderly Conduct".

If that happened, he should not have gotten his gun back, let alone his CHL.
Could you elaborate on this a bit? I always thought it depended on what you were convicted of, not what you were charged with.
A "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" is a federal firearms disqualifier. However, a D.V. conviction is not a requirement. The feds define...

A “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” is an offense that:
(1) is a misdemeanor under Federal, State, or Tribal law;
(2) has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon; and
(3) was committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.


Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor under Ohio law. Parts of it can mean element #2. If you were charged with D.V., obviously the police already met element #3. Therefore, a D.V. arrest pled down to assault or D.C. can still be a disqualifier and many do not realize that.
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I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by JustaShooter »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If one of his original charges was "Domestic Violence", it could have been reduced to "Disorderly Conduct".

If that happened, he should not have gotten his gun back, let alone his CHL.
Could you elaborate on this a bit? I always thought it depended on what you were convicted of, not what you were charged with.
A "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" is a federal firearms disqualifier. However, a D.V. conviction is not a requirement. The feds define...

A “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” is an offense that:
(1) is a misdemeanor under Federal, State, or Tribal law;
(2) has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon; and
(3) was committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.


Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor under Ohio law. Parts of it can mean element #2. If you were charged with D.V., obviously the police already met element #3. Therefore, a D.V. arrest pled down to assault or D.C. can still be a disqualifier and many do not realize that.
So, that seems like it would open up scenarios where DV was charged but never actually occurred, but enough *did* happen that disorderly conduct was still appropriate and the accused pled to that offense. From the perspective of the court records, wouldn't that look the same as an actual DV that was pled down to DC because the victim wouldn't testify, no witnesses, etc.?
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djthomas
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by djthomas »

Yes the court record may not always be clear. However nowadays Ohio law imposes on law enforcement a strong presumption that if the offense before them meets the definition of DV the aggressors should be arrested and charged with DV. Not disorderly conduct, not assault. The courts can sort it out later. In the meantime an arrest removes the aggressors from the premises and gets the victim started on the various services available to them including a temporary protection order. Then when it's all said and done you look at the court record and see that the original charge was a DV, the final charge was a DC. To really do it right you then have to look at what section of the DC statute they were convicted under to determine whether or not someone is a prohibited person.

Are there people walking around out there that are technically prohibited persons but there's nothing in their court record to substantiate that? Definitely.

Are there people walking around out there who are prohibited persons but assume that they are free and clear since all they were convicted of was a traffic offense level disorderly conduct ticket? Aaaaaabbbbssssssoooolllutely.

We've had both kinds come here seeking advice on having why their CHL is taking so long to be issued. In some cases they're like "but I bought a gun last week and the background check came through right away." The answer here is always the same: stop posing here, go no further with the CHL for the time being, start making arrangements to get your guns to a trusted third party and contact a lawyer ASAP.
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Garon »

djthomas wrote:Yes the court record may not always be clear. However nowadays Ohio law imposes on law enforcement a strong presumption that if the offense before them meets the definition of DV the aggressors should be arrested and charged with DV. Not disorderly conduct, not assault. The courts can sort it out later. In the meantime an arrest removes the aggressors from the premises and gets the victim started on the various services available to them including a temporary protection order. Then when it's all said and done you look at the court record and see that the original charge was a DV, the final charge was a DC. To really do it right you then have to look at what section of the DC statute they were convicted under to determine whether or not someone is a prohibited person.

Are there people walking around out there that are technically prohibited persons but there's nothing in their court record to substantiate that? Definitely.

Are there people walking around out there who are prohibited persons but assume that they are free and clear since all they were convicted of was a traffic offense level disorderly conduct ticket? Aaaaaabbbbssssssoooolllutely.

We've had both kinds come here seeking advice on having why their CHL is taking so long to be issued. In some cases they're like "but I bought a gun last week and the background check came through right away." The answer here is always the same: stop posing here, go no further with the CHL for the time being, start making arrangements to get your guns to a trusted third party and contact a lawyer ASAP.
No DV involved. I wrote a long reply but it didn't post. I joined to find out if anyone had trouble with Medina County returning CCLs.
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Garon wrote:
No DV involved. I wrote a long reply but it didn't post. I joined to find out if anyone had trouble with Medina County returning CCLs.
Please have patience with us.

I didn't find anything else posted specifically for Medina county.

That makes us wonder if the Sheriff THINKS he's doing the right thing. We don't mind giving him the benefit of the doubt. They often have information that we don't.

And double-checking with you and your friend about his charges is our way of getting our ducks in a row before taking action.

I am willing to personally call Sheriff Miller and try to figure out what's going on, if your friend wants me to.
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Garon
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Garon »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
Garon wrote:
No DV involved. I wrote a long reply but it didn't post. I joined to find out if anyone had trouble with Medina County returning CCLs.
Please have patience with us.

I didn't find anything else posted specifically for Medina county.

That makes us wonder if the Sheriff THINKS he's doing the right thing. We don't mind giving him the benefit of the doubt. They often have information that we don't.

And double-checking with you and your friend about his charges is our way of getting our ducks in a row before taking action.

I am willing to personally call Sheriff Miller and try to figure out what's going on, if your friend wants me to.
He has called De Wine's office and his Lawyer is on it now. Thank you, but a phone call at this time wont be needed. We'll let his Lawyer handle it.
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by JustaShooter »

Please be sure to update this thread when it is resolved.
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by Garon »

JustaShooter wrote:Please be sure to update this thread when it is resolved.
I will.
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SeanC
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Re: CC License not returned

Post by SeanC »

If your friend's lawyer mistakenly let your buddy plead to misdemeanor offense of domestic violence and didn't warn him ahead of time that he would lose his firearms rights forever, that's a pretty big omission. See if the local guy can handle it, and if not, find someone who knows about firearms laws to see what can be done.
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