Beat the system

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Ats3196
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Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

Hello I am new to the forum! I'm from butler county and a member of the Ohio national guard. I'm also only 20... So being 20 I can't obtain a Ohio CHL. BUT what I can and did obtain is a Florida non resident license since I'm in the military I was eligible even though not 21. And since Ohio sees Floridas license as valid, I now can legally conceal carry in Ohio being only 20. How about them apples
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Brian D.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Brian D. »

Welcome. You may find that Ohio law doesn't see it your way, regarding a 20 year old having possession of a handgun. I will defer to others here that seem to have the entire Ohio Revised Code at their virtual fingertips 24/7/365, for some relevant cites.
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JustaShooter
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Re: Beat the system

Post by JustaShooter »

You rang? LOL

Anyway, possession of a handgun by someone over 18 but under 21 is legal in Ohio. That is, there is no law prohibiting it in the ORC that I can find. The problem is one of acquisition. Under Federal law, you cannot by from a dealer until 21. And in Ohio, you have two hurdles to overcome:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2923.211 Underage purchase of firearm or handgun.

(A) No person under eighteen years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a firearm.

(B) No person under twenty-one years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a handgun, provided that this division does not apply to the purchase or attempted purchase of a handgun by a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if either of the following apply:

(1) The person is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.

(2) The person is an active or reserve member of the armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, or was honorably discharged from military service in the active or reserve armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, and the person has received firearms training from the armed services or the national guard or equivalent firearms training.


As a member of the Ohio National Guard, it looks to me like the OP has passed this hurdle. But, consider the following:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2923.21 Improperly furnishing firearms to minor.

(A) No person shall do any of the following:

(1) Sell any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(2) Subject to division (B) of this section, sell any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(3) Furnish any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age or, subject to division (B) of this section, furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult;

(4) Sell or furnish a firearm to a person who is eighteen years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the firearm for the purpose of selling the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(5) Sell or furnish a handgun to a person who is twenty-one years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the handgun for the purpose of selling the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(6) Purchase or attempt to purchase any firearm with the intent to sell the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or with the intent to furnish the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(7) Purchase or attempt to purchase any handgun with the intent to sell the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or with the intent to furnish the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age.

(B) Divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply to the sale or furnishing of a handgun to a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if the person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.
If I read this correctly, nobody can sell or give the OP a handgun since there isn't an exemption for members of the Ohio National Guard.

Now, if the OP acquired a handgun legally while a resident of another state, that would then pass that hurdle from what I can tell as I don't see any prohibition to bringing that handgun into Ohio.
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Ats3196
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

Yes I do believe I passed the first hurdle because I am in the guard. And the second, I THOUGHT I had seen something on if the handgun was a gift from a relative and over the age of 18 .. But not 100% on that one. You would think the first one stating that I'm allowed to have a handgun because national guard would trump the second one.. But idk. I certainly hope I didn't go through the effort of getting the Florida one for nothing. Thought I had my bases covered for sure haha.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

I believe the first clause is directly related to me purchasing the firearm, which it states is legal since I'm in the guard. And the second clause is directed to someone buying it for me ... So as long as I purchased it myself at a gun show or it was gifted then I should be clear ?
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Brian D. »

And, that's the rub per ORC. JustaShooter comes through with the proper links. We have indeed hashed this out before, and the conclusion was always as J_a_S stated. Not a fine point of law that I, as a twenty year old carry licensee, carrying, would want to become wrapped up in with law enforcement, or the rest of the legal system for that matter. What percentage of LE across are going to be the least bit aware that 21 is NOT the minimum age, or listen to any arguments of same during a traffic stop or whatever else brings one into contact with the police?
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Re: Beat the system

Post by pirateguy191 »

Them apples may have a worm or two in them.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by glocksmith »

How long have you been 20 years old? I mean, if you're going to be 21 in just a few months anyway, that's no great victory over "the system". I agree with what BrianD said below - any LEO's you might run into are going to view you simply as a person under 21 in possession of a handgun. I doubt they're going to want to engage in curbside discussion over all the fine points of Florida and Ohio law, nor are they going to spend an hour researching it on their dashboard PC's. It'll be up to the OP to clear up all this in court - which seems a lot more trouble than it's worth - just to get a few months head start on CC'ing in Ohio.
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JustaShooter
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Re: Beat the system

Post by JustaShooter »

Ats3196 wrote:I believe the first clause is directly related to me purchasing the firearm, which it states is legal since I'm in the guard. And the second clause is directed to someone buying it for me ... So as long as I purchased it myself at a gun show or it was gifted then I should be clear ?
*You* may be in the clear but as I read ORC 2923.21, anyone who sold it to you or gifted it to you would be guilty of a felony since there is no exemption for gifts from relatives, etc. And of course, there is always the issue of discussions with LEOs at the side of the road, as others have pointed out.
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Ats3196
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

Thanks everyone for the replies. So fact of the matter is, in the Fine print, I, being 20 years old in the national guard , am allowed to own a handgun. Ohio has reciprocity with Florida, so my license is valid. Someone selling me one, is illegal. But me buying it isn't, so I'm not liable for that. Yes this is a lot to go through to carry 6 months early, but I have a family and myself to protect. My unit has encouraged carrying due to threats in our area towards LEO and military . So all in all I believe I'll chance it, and if a scenario Arises in which a LEO is uninformed and This has to go to court, so be it. I absolute my should win, and then the state has to pay my fees. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
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Ats3196
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

Maybe I'll print out that section of the code and carry that also. Or possibly even goto the sherries office, talk about the situation with them, and possibly get a letter or paper to carry it stopped by a LEO that also explains it . Like I said, a lot to deal with, but worth it IMO . And more than likely, won't even happen within the next 6 months to worry about
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Beat the system

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Scenario:

So, you're stopped for a legitimate traffic violation. You notify and provide the officer your driver license and Florida CHL when asked.

The officer notices your age and (surprisingly) knows that you can possess the gun but asks, "Who furnished you the gun?"

As 'furnishing' is a felony, and you are a witness to said felony, will you refuse to answer the officer?

If you answer, you just jammed up that person with a potential felony charge.

If you don't answer, you're going to get hit with an obstruction charge, potentially a felony.


Of course, if we didn't have to notify, it's possible that the officer would never even ask you about weapons in the car.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Sevens »

Well, here's how all of this occurs to me...

Without case law and precedent, the whole thing is a big, ugly black cloud. I have to say that I am glad it is not a black cloud over ME. However, I appreciate your position, attitude and drive -- but -FAR- more than that, I genuinely hope that you skate through the next 1-12 months without testing ANY of this.

Because it would be a shame to be placed in to such a position.

In the mean time, make sure every light bulb on your car works, turn signals always, courteous driving, lay low, etc etc etc.

Please don't BECOME the case law that you actually need. I believe it would be a crap experience, no matter the outcome.

And at the end of the day, I'm happy that we have another good guy... just so happens to be 20yrs old currently. ;)
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HancockCountyHAl
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Re: Beat the system

Post by HancockCountyHAl »

If I am reading this correctly, an 18 year old in the Guard can buy their own handgun from a gun store. Legally furnished. Right?

Edit: Sorry, forgot about the Federal restrictions.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

18 USC 922(X)(3)(b) exempts 'juveniles' in the military.


The problem is that, under current Ohio law, not even an FFL may sell (furnish) a handgun to a juvenile in the military.

State law says they CAN furnish to a juvenile employed by a police department, but there is no federal exemption for that.

:?
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