Beat the system

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Kenosis
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Kenosis »

Ats3196 wrote:Hello I am new to the forum! I'm from butler county and a member of the Ohio national guard. I'm also only 20... So being 20 I can't obtain a Ohio CHL. BUT what I can and did obtain is a Florida non resident license since I'm in the military I was eligible even though not 21. And since Ohio sees Floridas license as valid, I now can legally conceal carry in Ohio being only 20. How about them apples
No.

Ohio will allow you to carry a belt-fed machine gun while on duty, but not a revolver on your own time. There's something magical about the uniform that makes you a responsible person with a machine-gun, but irresponsible with a 5-shot .38 when on your own time. However if you cross an imaginary political boundary on a paper map and enter "Florida", all of a sudden you are responsible with a firearm and CAN carry.

This is the "logic" Ohioans endure as Ohio takes step after step away from Leftist Liberal Stateism. It's a process.

The law is designed to enable fear mongers and collect money. The law serves no useful purpose what so ever. Welcome to the forum :)
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cashman966
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Re: Beat the system

Post by cashman966 »

Ats3196 wrote:
techguy85 wrote:
Ats3196 wrote:Yep. Ohio law states the courts have to pay all my fines and fees of that we're to happen ... Annoying yes.... But chance I'm willing to take to protect myself, my family and my community
It does? Where might this be in Ohio Revised Code? I've never heard of such a thing...
So what would actually happen if I was arrested by an uninformed LEO is the case would just be acquitted because no crime was committed .. Now, if I was booked in jail, and acquitted, what would have to happen is I would have to file a civil case against the state for wrongful arrest/imprisonment.. Then they would go over my previous arrest/case, see I was aquittwd and no crime was committed and they then would have to pay everything from fines to lawyer fees to missing work... All that can be found in Ohio revised code 2743.48 starting at section D regarding the civil action case ... Now would that be worth all the trouble ? Probably not. So once again let's just hope I don't have to find out ..
You may want to take a second look at 2743.48 starting at (A) Long story short, in order to file a suit under 2743.48 you have to be convicted first and actually be sentenced to prison.
2743.48 Wrongful imprisonment civil action against state.

(A) As used in this section and section 2743.49 of the Revised Code, a "wrongfully imprisoned individual" means an individual who satisfies each of the following:

(1) The individual was charged with a violation of a section of the Revised Code by an indictment or information, and the violation charged was an aggravated felony or felony.

(2) The individual was found guilty of, but did not plead guilty to, the particular charge or a lesser-included offense by the court or jury involved, and the offense of which the individual was found guilty was an aggravated felony or felony.

(3) The individual was sentenced to an indefinite or definite term of imprisonment in a state correctional institution for the offense of which the individual was found guilty.

(4) The individual's conviction was vacated, dismissed, or reversed on appeal, the prosecuting attorney in the case cannot or will not seek any further appeal of right or upon leave of court, and no criminal proceeding is pending, can be brought, or will be brought by any prosecuting attorney, city director of law, village solicitor, or other chief legal officer of a municipal corporation against the individual for any act associated with that conviction.

(5) Subsequent to sentencing and during or subsequent to imprisonment, an error in procedure resulted in the individual's release, or it was determined by the court of common pleas in the county where the underlying criminal action was initiated that the charged offense, including all lesser-included offenses, either was not committed by the individual or was not committed by any person.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

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djthomas
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Re: Beat the system

Post by djthomas »

Ats3196 wrote:So all In all, I'm good to go. If asked where i got the gun, I'll plead the 5th to avoid any fan of worms from opening.. Worse case the LEO doesn't see things my way and I'm cited. It'll goto court and written law is on my side. Hopefully won't even have that situation before 21.. I feel good about the situation and won't let uninformed LEOs scare me off from exercising my right !
The thing of it is it's not about you. As far as the gun goes you have committed no crime, however someone may have in giving it to you. You can't plead the fifth because what you say will not be evidence against you. In fact, "pleading the fifth" just might open up the can of worms you're trying to keep closed. Allow me to explain:

A situation like this is too complex for the average LEO to sort out on the road. If he wanted to make an issue about it, and do it the right way, he'd take down your information and kick you loose after addressing the reason for the stop. Then he'd take the circumstances as he knows them to his prosecutor. Since we're talking about a potential felony here they might be interested. Two or three months go by when you hear a knock at your door and it's not the pizza man - it's a deputy sheriff there to serve you with a grand jury subpoena.

Once you're before the grand jury there's only two ways you can get out of having to tell them where you got the gun, and the first isn't absolute. First is if you obtained it unlawfully (e.g. stole it), in which case you might be offered immunity in exchange for your testimony, otherwise you could expect to be indicted for felony receiving stolen property. The other would be if you obtained the firearm from your spouse, in which case spousal privilege would likely apply.

And so we return to the traffic stop that started this whole thing. Where it goes from there is going to largely depend on how you handle that roadside interaction. It's the prisoner's dilemma. If you're forthright and cooperative the matter might end there, no guarantees though. On the other hand if you start quoting chapter and verse of the ORC and carrying on about your second and fifth amendment rights the odds that they're going to find a way to screw with you go up exponentially.

Oh and by the way, if you're stopped by OSHP all bets are off.
Ats3196
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

All in all, it's just a cloudy, sucky situation.. The law states I can own a handgun since military... And we have reciprocity with Florida .. Idk why they would have reciprocity but pick and choose how they honor it.. Didn't think it worked that way. And if the LEO decides to ask where I got it, I'm just going to plead the 5th, so I don't incriminate anyway accidently, and if it has to goto court , I'll speak with my lawyer about it then . Just gonna lay low and hope I don't have to find out .
"If you become a sheep, the wolves will eat you"

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glocksmith
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Re: Beat the system

Post by glocksmith »

I asked before...how long until you are 21 years old ? Is it really worth all the hassle?
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
Ats3196
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Ats3196 »

8 months.. IMO yes it is . Especially with this nasty election coming up and the way people have behaved so far, I can only imagine things going bad possibly this year.. I won't be a victim because there's a possibility of having to deal with a hassle .. Rather have it if I need it and deal with a hassle then need it and not have it and deal with a lot worse possibly
"If you become a sheep, the wolves will eat you"

Hillary for Prison '16
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gaptrick
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Re: Beat the system

Post by gaptrick »

I admire your convictions and the sense you the value of being armed in this day in age. The laws aren't necessarily AGAINST you, but they leave enough for interpretation that it puts you on a very bumpy road.

If there is the possibility of speaking to a lawyer well versed in Ohio gun laws and explain the course of action you are taking there is the chance he she can come up with an easy out before you even need it and not just say they advise against it.

Good luck to you and thank you for being responsible for yourself ...
Unarmed people are vulnerable people, and criminal predators prey upon them.

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"A story about a bird stealing a knife from a crime scene...and we're more interested in hearing about the Canadian with a gun.
Man, we need to get lives."
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glocksmith
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Re: Beat the system

Post by glocksmith »

Ats3196 wrote:8 months.. IMO yes it is . Especially with this nasty election coming up and the way people have behaved so far, I can only imagine things going bad possibly this year.. I won't be a victim because there's a possibility of having to deal with a hassle .. Rather have it if I need it and deal with a hassle then need it and not have it and deal with a lot worse possibly
If things "go bad possibly this year" to use your words...then licensed and legal carry become irrelevant. TBH if things go "Mad Max" it is hard to imagine a guy being concerned about carrying in conformity with the law.
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
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pirateguy191
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Re: Beat the system

Post by pirateguy191 »

^^^^ The bad guys won't be concerned about it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Beat the system

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

pirateguy191 wrote:^^^^ The bad guys won't be concerned about it.
Why not? Are you saying they won't obey the law? :shock:
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jinxer
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Re: Beat the system

Post by jinxer »

welcome!

i too have a florida ccw.

my problem was i committed a crime that would have been a felony if committed by an adult . i joyrode a stolen car from a dealership when i was 15 and got caught. i have not had any dealings with law enforcement ever since (other than 3 traffic tickets) - and i am 38 now.

so there is that paragraph in the ohio ccw license application about being adjudicated deliquent of a crime that would be considered a felony.

i believe the records are sealed (my attorney asked them to be).

however it is also a felony to lie on an ohio ccw application.

i didnt want to hire an attorney to check into this.

so it was easier for me to get my florida application.
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SeanC
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Re: Beat the system

Post by SeanC »

Nobody would be guilty of furnishing a handgun to a person under 21 if, for example, OP purchased it legally in another state with different laws, or inherited it in another state with different laws. Or maybe he found it? Local LEO would be wrong to assume from the fact that OP has a handgun that someone illegally furnished it to OP. There are lots of explanations for how OP came into possession of the firearm that do not involve a criminal act, and therefore, nobody could force OP to discuss the subject.

If I were OP, well... being 20 again there are a number of things I would do. 8) But with respect to this issue, I wouldn't worry about it. If I got stopped, I'd notify etc., and if the LEO wanted to push the issue of the handgun, I would just decline to comment.

Interesting issue: if the LEO takes OP's gun during a stop, can he give it back without himself violating 2923.21? Fun stuff.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.
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pirateguy191
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Re: Beat the system

Post by pirateguy191 »

^^^^ He found it? Seriously?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

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Brian D.
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Re: Beat the system

Post by Brian D. »

All I keep thinking about here is that there would be many cops that, in this situation, connect "handgun" with "under 21" then just cuff 'n' stuff without further discussion. We know how sparse their knowledge of law can be sometimes.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Beat the system

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

jinxer wrote:...
so there is that paragraph in the ohio ccw license application about being adjudicated deliquent of a crime that would be considered a felony.

i believe the records are sealed (my attorney asked them to be).

however it is also a felony to lie on an ohio ccw application.

i didnt want to hire an attorney to check into this.

so it was easier for me to get my florida application.
Two things.

First, if your juvenile record happened in Ohio, call the clerk of the juvenile court and check if your juvenile record is "sealed" or "expunged". If it's sealed, they should be able to find it and tell you so. If it's been expunged, there will literally be no record of your record.

If it is only sealed, get it expunged.

Second, in Section III of the CHL application, right before question #6, there is this little blurb that an awful lot of people seem to miss:
FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS 6, 7A, 7B, DO NOT INCLUDE ANY CONVICTION FOR WHICH A COURT HAS
ORDERED SEALED OR EXPUNGED OR RELATIVE TO WHICH A COURT HAS GRANTED RELIEF FROM DISABILITY
PURSUANT TO ORC 2923.14, OR A CONVICTION FOR A MINOR MISDEMEANOR LEVEL OFFENSE.
No need to lie.
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