Shotgun pistol?

[CombatShotgunner]

Ok. There are AR's and AR pistols. Is there any version of a Mossberg 500 shotgun that is classified as a pistol?

[wkdravenna]

There are special Serbu shorty shotguns.

They are "any other weapon" not a pistol.

How about a smith and his friend wesson Governor. Also the Taurus judge, public defender. Those are pistols that shoot shells. They are "shot gunnyish"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbu_Super-Shorty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_pXTItRtkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (hickock45 with serbu mossberg 500 and Remington 800)

[steves 50de]

There are special Serbu shorty shotguns.

They are "any other weapon" not a pistol.

How about a smith and his friend wesson Governor. Also the Taurus judge, public defender. Those are pistols that shoot shells. They are "shot gunnyish"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbu_Super-Shorty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_pXTItRtkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (hickock45 with serbu mossberg 500 and Remington 800)

ATF classified the serbu super shorty as a smooth bore pistol and falls in the AOW . So I think with the proper paperwork in hand it would be legal to carry.

[CombatShotgunner]

Thank you! I have to look for the law and proper paperwork for the carrying as a pistol. I was also looking at Black Aces Tactical.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Not going to be a pistol, therefore it's not going to be a handgun, therefore it's not going to be concealable...if that's what you're after.

According to the ATF:

"...firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.

A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.

Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the
licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.”
These entries should indicate the firearm type as “pistol grip
firearm.”

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...ATF classified the serbu super shorty as a smooth bore pistol and falls in the AOW . So I think with the proper paperwork in hand it would be legal to carry.

Under Ohio law, it's a handgun if it's designed to be fired with one hand.

All the Super Shorty's I've seen have a vertical foregrip, so it would not meet Ohio's definition of a handgun (and removing the VFG would not change how it was originally designed).

2923.11(C) "Handgun" means any of the following:
(1) Any firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;...

[TSiWRX]

2+1 (or 4+1) rounds....reloads that will take up quite some space on my body......

Patterning shots out to? what's viable engagement distance?

This is going to be a very, very specialized defensive weapon......

[steves 50de]

Not going to be a pistol, therefore it's not going to be a handgun, therefore it's not going to be concealable...if that's what you're after.

According to the ATF:

"...firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.

A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.

Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the
licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.”
These entries should indicate the firearm type as “pistol grip
firearm.”

Dave if ATF said it was a pistol would that not over rule Ohio's definition.

[Brian D.]

Likely not, Steve, at least for purposes of licensed handgun cc in Ohio. I could surely have that wrong though.

[TSiWRX]

By-Hoyle legal or not, I'd still be really weary of LE-interactions with this item slung under my shoulder/at my side........

It's like that AR/AK-pistol.

I'll likely win in court - but I'm guessing I'm at least going to lose that fight on the side of the road......

In all seriousness, what would be the advantages of this type of firearm, concealed-carry?

[wkdravenna]

Intresting. I would have thought no, as its a "AOW" "any other weapon" .

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Dave if ATF said it was a pistol would that not over rule Ohio's definition.

"Smooth-bore, Pistol" is just how the ATF describes what it is, not the ATF "classification". It's classified as an AOW.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... -section-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if/when you get charged, it's far more likely you'll be charged under state law, so state definitions apply.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...

In all seriousness, what would be the advantages of this type of firearm, concealed-carry?

Oh, my.

A short, 12-gauge, wide pattern firearm in a handgun format?

Because where would I keep my full-size shotgun (with shoulder stock) in my economy-sized car...and how would I quickly load it?

Heck, Reginald Denny would have LOVED to have one of those in his truck during the Rodney King riots in L.A. !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny

Reginald Oliver Denny (born January 22, 1956), 36 years old at the time, was a construction dump truck driver. On the first day of the rioting, Denny was attacked by four men, pulled from his International Road Tractor and brutally beaten, sustaining serious head trauma and other injuries. There was no apparent motive outside of racial hatred. As a result of the injuries he suffered during the attacks, Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged...

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Dave if ATF said it was a pistol would that not over rule Ohio's definition.

Oh, by the way...I posted this one on Facebook, but I should probably post it here:

Once you think you have a decent understanding of the laws in Ohio, you should read R.C. 2923.11(P).

You will then understand why having a lawyer might be a good idea.

-----
(P) "Misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" does not include any of the following:

(1) [white collar crimes - text omitted];

(2) Any misdemeanor offense punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.
-----

Yes. Read section (P) and (2) closely.

Ohio law. It rejects YOUR reality and substitutes its own.

[TSiWRX]

...

In all seriousness, what would be the advantages of this type of firearm, concealed-carry?

Oh, my.

A short, 12-gauge, wide pattern firearm in a handgun format?

Because where would I keep my full-size shotgun (with shoulder stock) in my economy-sized car...and how would I quickly load it?

Heck, Reginald Denny would have LOVED to have one of those in his truck during the Rodney King riots in L.A. !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny

Reginald Oliver Denny (born January 22, 1956), 36 years old at the time, was a construction dump truck driver. On the first day of the rioting, Denny was attacked by four men, pulled from his International Road Tractor and brutally beaten, sustaining serious head trauma and other injuries. There was no apparent motive outside of racial hatred. As a result of the injuries he suffered during the attacks, Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged...

I remember the Reginald Denny beating very well. As anyone who grew up during that time, the LA Riots were a formative part of our memories. Heck, I even have a "Roof Korean" (I crossed out the second word, and replaced it with one that more befits my ancestry ) patch to prove it.

So you shoot your attacker in reasonable proximity to you and his merry band of goons who are hovering just beyond. Awesome, one shot, and 3 of them each catches some ought-buck. But thanks to the spread, an innocent looter in the background who's stopped to witness the show catches one in the spine. That's not exactly a win, for me. More realistically, though, at the distances at which Mr. Denny was attacked, the patterning of 00-buck or even birdshot from the Serbu Super Shorty would likely have only printed center-mass on an individual assailant. Given the specifics of that incident, at best, you'd still want the 4+1 variant.

There's pros and cons to that wide pattern: it's not all gravy and no cholesterol. I *_love_* my boom-stick, and the terminal ballistics of the 00-buck is undeniable. But at the same time, we've all patterned our guns - that magical Hollywood "scatter gun" that knocks down multiple aggressors? in the real world, there's always a backdrop consideration. With the defensive shotgun, for me, it's more about lethality on that single target, not about somehow shooting once and dropping a crowd.

More realistically, what if an aggressor, instead of grabbing you, the driver, simply grabbed a passenger? Let's say that he's smashed my window and pulled my daughter out. I bail out of the car as fast as I can - but by this time, he's dragged my daughter some 10 yards away. Do I take that shot? Do a slug switch-over? that's going to mean that I carry two distinct sources of ammo on my body.....

Regardless, now I've just caught the attention of everyone within earshot who has a bit of anger in their system. Now the riot is focused on me.....There's anywhere from three to five shots in that gun, depending on the length/configuration. In a riot scenario, how quickly and reliably can one repeatedly combat-load that shotgun, versus a slide-lock reload on an autopistol?

I'd rather have a Glock with a couple of happy-sticks. Or an AR/AK pistol.

I think that this weapon has some awesome, but rather narrowly focused uses - for CC or even as a "truck gun," though, I'm not convinced that it's as useful as either a rifle or a full-size shotgun w/o stock (which at least would have the advantage of ammo capacity, and would be considerably less costly).