Virginia Restoring Reciprocity in Most of the 25 it Banned

[JustaShooter]

Since then, they passed a law that extended reciprocity or recognition to citizens holding both resident and non-resident permits/licenses to all of the affected states, including Ohio. However, that does not reinstate the reciprocal agreement, only provides recognition of our licenses in VA. But, even if you believe that the written agreement remains in effect until June 30, it does not do so after that date because the extension expires June 30. After that date, the law of the state of VA recognizes all licenses *without a written agreement* and directs the AG to enter into written agreements with those states that require them. But, Ohio does not require one so it seems unlikely that the VA AG will do so. And unless the VA AG decides to enter into a new reciprocity agreement with Ohio before then, we will not have one in effect after June 30 under any interpretation of the current state of affairs.

Furthermore, without a formal reciprocity agreement, Ohio residents that are using only a Virginia non-resident will no longer be able to legally carry in Ohio.

From the Legislative Summary of HB235, which became law 3/25/2015:

• Provides that if a person is an Ohio resident and has a valid concealed handgun license from another state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the Attorney General, that out-of-state license will be recognized in Ohio (R.C. 109.69(A) and (B)(1) and 2923.126(D)).
• Provides that if a person who is an Ohio resident and has a valid concealed handgun license from another state that has not entered into a reciprocity agreement with the Attorney General, that out-of-state license will be recognized in Ohio for a period of six months after the person has become a resident of Ohio (R.C. 109.69(A) and (B)(2) and 2923.126(D)).
• After the six-month period described in the preceding dot point, if the person wishes to obtain a concealed handgun license, the person must apply for an Ohio concealed handgun license (R.C. 109.69(A) and (C)(2) and 2923.126(D)).

Thanks for expanding on my post and pointing out the law behind the issue with carrying in Ohio on a VA non-resident license when there is no written reciprocal agreement.

[Superman]

I believe you are misreading / misunderstanding. The Ohio AG office was notified by the VA AG on December 22 that VA was rescinding the reciprocal agreement effective Feb. 1. After that, the VA State Police notified the Ohio AG that they would extend a grace period through March 1st (note that the VA SP *cannot* enter into such agreements, only the VA AG can do so). See the notice on the Ohio AG website at http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Law- ... Agreements" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and then click on the state of VA in the map. The statement reads:

On December 22, 2015, the Virginia State Police notified our office that they would be cancelling the reciprocity agreement between our states effective February 1, 2016. However, on January 29, 2016, the Virginia State Police notified our office that due to ongoing discussions about changing Virginia law, they would honor our reciprocity agreement until March 1, 2016. Based on this situation, Attorney General DeWine recommends Ohio permit holders travelling through Virginia contact the Virginia State Police at (804) 674-2000 if they have any questions. The letters from Virginia are available here.

The VA AG has not notified the Ohio AG that the agreement would remain in effect. So, technically, the written agreement expired as of Feb 1., but the VA SP chose to continue to honor OH licenses as if the agreement was still in effect. Note, again that only the VA SP agreed to continue to honor our licenses, not the AG.

Since then, they passed a law that extended reciprocity or recognition to citizens holding both resident and non-resident permits/licenses to all of the affected states, including Ohio. However, that does not reinstate the reciprocal agreement, only provides recognition of our licenses in VA. But, even if you believe that the written agreement remains in effect until June 30, it does not do so after that date because the extension expires June 30. After that date, the law of the state of VA recognizes all licenses *without a written agreement* and directs the AG to enter into written agreements with those states that require them. But, Ohio does not require one so it seems unlikely that the VA AG will do so. And unless the VA AG decides to enter into a new reciprocity agreement with Ohio before then, we will not have one in effect after June 30 under any interpretation of the current state of affairs.

If the formal reciprocity agreement has expired as you believe, why isn't it clearly stated as such on the AG's website? Such an event is important enough that it would be posted on the website and especially on the drop down information window when you click on the state of Virginia. It also states in the special notes that Virginia "will continue to recognize our reciprocity agreement until March 1, 2016", which also indicated the agreement was not cancelled. Additionally, how can Virginia extend something until June 30, 2016 that doesn't exist? Virginia's statement about extension to June 30 clearly implies that formal reciprocity agreements were not cancelled or in order for them to extend such, a new one would have had to already be entered into.

[Superman]

"I agree, however I do find it somewhat off putting that an Ohio resident would, or even can, side step the Ohio CHL system by legally carrying concealed on an out of state license/permit.
I am of the belief that this ability should be illegal."

Recognizing the CCL from other states is clearly a part of the Ohio CHL system so it isn't a side step. Why should it matter whom holds the license? It is the licensing and certification that is recognized, not the person. The person was already vetted in the licensing procedure. Why would it be ok with you that someone from out of state can come into the state and carry legally on a license that a resident of the same state cannot? Be it a resident or non-resident license. After all, it is the vetting that is behind the licenses.

Why would an Ohio resident want to carry in Ohio on a different state's CHL? Because another state may have less demanding requirements (time and money) to obtain the license or the license might be more widely accepted in jurisdictions that the person frequents and this would remove redundancy and additional expenses (time and money). There's at least 2 valid reasons to your question/statement in your post. And, if the less stringent requirements part bothers you, then you should be against ANYONE having that same CHL carrying in Ohio but it seems you're not. That's a contradiction, in my opinion.

I concur with your comments on constitutional carry.

[JustaShooter]

I've simply laid out the facts, if you choose to interpret them a different way, that is certainly your prerogative. However, the way I see it there really isn't any question that the VA AG, who is the *only* entity that can enter into or rescind a written reciprocal agreement, has rescinded it effective February 1st. The fact that the VA SP are recognizing Ohio licenses *in spite of this* does not magically make the agreement valid again.

You clearly want the answer to be something that benefits you. You appear to be ready to do whatever you want, and are simply looking for affirmation of your position. I'm sorry I can't give it to you, and I'll just say that as an Ohio resident, you carry in Ohio on a VA license at your peril.

[techguy85]

I've simply laid out the facts, if you choose to interpret them a different way, that is certainly your prerogative. However, the way I see it there really isn't any question that the VA AG, who is the *only* entity that can enter into or rescind a written reciprocal agreement, has rescinded it effective February 1st. The fact that the VA SP are recognizing Ohio licenses *in spite of this* does not magically make the agreement valid again.

You clearly want the answer to be something that benefits you. You appear to be ready to do whatever you want, and are simply looking for affirmation of your position. I'm sorry I can't give it to you, and I'll just say that as an Ohio resident, you carry in Ohio on a VA license at your peril.

JustaShooter is absolutely correct about a VA license not being valid for an Ohio resident carrying in Ohio under that license only.
Please go get a license that is recognised in Ohio via a formal agreement that is not in question.

[Superman]

Hahaha, both of you attack deleted--m380gneed to read the letter from the Virginia District Attorney dated Feb 26 and received February 29. You will see that ALL of my fact based contentions are true and all of your vindictive emotion driven drivel is wrong. The reciprocity agreement was NEVER rescinded by Virginia and will remain in force until July 1, 2016. attack deleted--m380g. You attack someone like you did me and end up being DEAD WRONG and not a peep from either of you admitting to such or an apology. That's called cowardice and lack of credibilty. We don't need people like you on the discussion boards. Why don't you find a board where attacking people with inaccurate emotional drivel is acceptable.

Personal attacks are not tolerated or acceptable. Keep it civil--m380g

[JustaShooter]

Hahaha, both of you attack deleted--m380g need to read the letter from the Virginia District Attorney dated Feb 26 and received February 29. You will see that ALL of my fact based contentions are true and all of your vindictive emotion driven drivel is wrong. The reciprocity agreement was NEVER rescinded by Virginia and will remain in force until July 1, 2016. So stick attack deleted--m380g. You attack someone like you did me and end up being DEAD WRONG and not a peep from either of you admitting to such or an apology. That's called cowardice and lack of credibilty. We don't need people like you on the discussion boards. Why don't you find a board where attacking people with inaccurate emotional drivel is acceptable.

Your personal attack notwithstanding, the Feb. 26 letter was not available at the time techguy85 and I posted last. With the information contained in the letter, it is clear that the written agreement is indeed in force through July 1, at which point the recognition will be statutory - meaning, any Ohio resident carrying in Ohio on an VA non-resident license has until then to acquire a license from either Ohio or a state with which Ohio has a written agreement.

I expect an apology forthwith for the vindictive personal attack against techguy85 and myself.

[calvin56]

I expect an apology forthwith for the vindictive personal attack against techguy85 and myself.

[/quote]

I wasn't part of this argument but as I see it you were snarky and arrogant in your reply to Superman. You were also wrong, apparently. Superman may have been crude even violating the tos but the apology should be going the other way.

[techguy85]

Let's be clear that after the written agreement is no longer in effect only non-residents carrying in Ohio under a VA license will be legal. Let's not let the back and forth allow us to lose sight of that reality.

[JustaShooter]

I expect an apology forthwith for the vindictive personal attack against techguy85 and myself.

I wasn't part of this argument but as I see it you were snarky and arrogant in your reply to Superman. You were also wrong, apparently. Superman may have been crude even violating the tos but the apology should be going the other way.

I stand by what I said. With the information available at the time, since there had not been a letter from the VA AG indicating the agreement was not being rescinded, and only a letter from the VA SP informing the OH AG that they would honor a grace period, it was reasonable to come to the conclusion that the agreement was void after Feb 1, but the VA SP would not enforce it against those with affected licenses.

With the new information, that being a letter from the VA AG indicating the agreement would not be rescinded until July 1, it is now clear that I was wrong in that the agreement was rescinded already. But as I said in an earlier post, even if it wasn't already rescinded, the agreement ends "for sure July 1 unless a new agreement is signed before that date."

As far as "snarky and arrogant", that's in the eye/ear of the reader/hearer. My writing style is such that I am occasionally perceived that way by some. So be it, and I'll not apologize for it. Regardless, the vindictive personal attack against techguy85 and myself was uncalled for.

[JustaShooter]

Let's be clear that after the written agreement is no longer in effect only non-residents carrying in Ohio under a VA license will be legal. Let's not let the back and forth allow us to lose sight of that reality.

Indeed. Even if the alarm hasn't gone off, the clock is ticking and any Ohio resident carrying in Ohio on a VA license has roughly 100 days to deal with that issue and either get an Ohio license or a license from a state with which Ohio has a written reciprocal agreement..

[Bama.45]

I don't see what the hooplah is all about.. Just get a dang Ohio CHL and quit griping.

[barber]

I have been looking, but have not seen any updates regarding Virginia non resident permits being used by Ohio residents.

[JustaShooter]

My understanding from reading the letter from the VA State Patrol on the OH AG website is that the reciprocity agreement with VA has been rescinded effective July 1st, which would mean an Ohioan who has been a resident for over 6 months can no longer carry in Ohio on a VA license. However, I've put in a call to my contact at the Ohio Attorney General's office to clarify that understanding, and will post back here once I've spoken with him.

[techguy85]

I have been looking, but have not seen any updates regarding Virginia non resident permits being used by Ohio residents.

The situation is as far as I know unchanged: VA now has statutory recognition of all licenses from other states and the written agreement between VA and OH is no longer in effect. This means that non-residents of Ohio may carry in Ohio under VA's license but that Ohio residents have 6 months from the date they have residency to obtain a license recognized in Ohio via a written agreement or an Ohio CHL.