Virginia Restoring Reciprocity in Most of the 25 it Banned

[EE]

Found this (link below) on Virginia governor overruling AG's canceling of reciprocity for 25 states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html

[Brian D.]

I have to imagine that the AGs initial action brought down a storm of haterade on the Governor's office. Virginia has some very active, very noisy, gun rights folks. They are boisterous enough to draw public hissy fits from elected officials at times, something the media there is always thrilled to catch on camera/microphone.

[eye95]

If the article is accurate, it sounds like the Republicans pulled a play right out of the Democrats playbook. They won a concession from the Executive from the other party for the mere promise to "soften their stance" on related issues.

I don't like the part about disarming folks under protective orders for two years. Such orders are too easy to get, don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and yet remove a fundamental Right. As long as the victim...er...subject of the order leaves the other person alone, they should be able to go about their lives unmolested by the system.

I do like the part about state troopers being require to be on-hand at gun shows. No one will be forced to do background checks, but the process will be made available to them. Laws that tie the hand of governmental entities, while freeing the hands of the People, are almost always good laws.

[WestonDon]

I thought only FFL's could access NICS. I was not aware that state troopers could do so also.

If a state trooper gets a denial on a NICS check is he required to arrest the attempted buyer?

I am suspicious of this.

[djthomas]

I thought only FFL's could access NICS. I was not aware that state troopers could do so also.

Oh yes and so can your municipal police department. How do you think the Ohio Sheriff's have been conducting a NICS background check on all CHLs issued since March 23, 2015?

If a state trooper gets a denial on a NICS check is he required to arrest the attempted buyer?

I'm not an expert on Virginia law, but who knows ... In theory if you try to buy from a licensed dealer the ATF should nail you for lying on the federal form but not the prohibited possession. I don't know what's going to be involved with the Virginia form. Personally I think that if you're dumb enough to sign your name to a form knowing that you're a prohibited person then you get whatever comes to you.

[concreteguy]

I'm glad to see this as I'm not to keen on OC. We pass thru VA quite a bit.

[AlanM]

If you want to know EXACTLY how this situation stands as of 1/20/16 read the OP of this thread:
The reciprocity deal between McAuliffe and Republicans

Note that the Virginia legislature is only in session for a few weeks each year. (1/13/16 thru 3/12/16 in this case)
The VCDL had ~1200 people show up in Richmond on Jan. 18th for "Gun Lobby Day" in which EVERY legislator was visited face to face with small groups of VCDL volunteers who explained and discussed proposed gun related bills with them.
VCDL does this for every session of the legislature.

See:
VCDL Lobby Day 2016 Report
and
Second Amendment supporters remind Virginia lawmakers about one thing: ‘guns save lives’

[BobK]

Wow, 1200 volunteers. Quite a statement.

If OFCC and BFA had 1200 people show up, that would move the needle in Columbus.

I remember when Nikki Goeser came to Columbus to testify, we had well under 20 people from both organizations attend. I don't recall participating in any legislative effort that had more than that.

[JustaShooter]

From From Va-Alert of today (https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/ ... 4EF10038B/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

As expected, Governor McAuliffe signed all six bills that made up the “deal” today.

Virginia will begin to honor the permits from all states that issue permits starting July 1.

Details as to the status of the current reciprocity cut-off-date of March 1st will be shared with you once we find out. I expect the cut-off date to either be rescinded altogether or to be moved out to July 1.

More coming up later today.

Congratulations, VCDL!

I do not know what this means for those Ohioans carrying on a VA license. In one of the earlier "deals" (that was subsequently altered), the AG was going to be required to re-sign agreements with those states that had been dropped. I do not know if the current deal requires that or not, or if an Ohio license will simply fall under their blanket recognition. If that is the case, then a VA license will not be valid in Ohio for an Ohio resident.

[JonasM]

The VA State Police Site today lists the following:

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Reciprocity.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit Reciprocity and Recognition

**** NOTICE****

Legal review conducted by the Office of the Attorney General in 2015 pursuant to § 18.2-308.014 of the Code of Virginia identified several jurisdictions that currently fail to meet the statutory requirements for recognition of the concealed carry permits they issue
In response to this review, the Governor and Attorney General, working with the General Assembly, have reached a bi-partisan legislative solution to ensure the continued recognition of concealed carry permits.

UNTIL JUNE 30, 2016:

Virginia extends reciprocity or recognition to citizens holding both resident and non-resident permits/licenses from the following jurisdictions as set forth below:
Listing of states with which Virginia has Reciprocity Agreements (A formal written agreement exists between the two jurisdictions):



Alaska
Florida
Kentucky
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio


Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
West Virginia


EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2016

The holder of a valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state may carry a concealed handgun in Virginia provided:
•the holder of such permit or license is at least 21 years of age; and
•the permit or license holder carries a photo identification issued by a government agency of any state or by the U.S. Department of Defense or U.S. Department of State; and
•the holder displays the permit or license and such identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer; and
•the permit or license holder has not previously had a Virginia concealed handgun permit revoked.

The "Effective July 1" part references the legislation signed a few days ago.

Good. I'll be traveling through VA later this month.

[JustaShooter]

Looks like we will have uninterrupted recognition of an Ohio license in VA, so the only issue is one of Ohio residents carrying in Ohio on a VA non-resident license. Unless OH and VA sign a new agreement, that will no longer be legal. I'm not sure *when* it stops being legal, but for sure July 1 unless a new agreement is signed before that date.

[Superman]

I don't see anywhere that any formal reciprocity agreement was ever rescinded. There was a threat to rescind at a certain date but before that date arrived, there was an agreement not to rescind the reciprocity agreements. Virginia even states that current FORMAL reciprocity agreements exist, at least until June 30, 2016, with a list of states including Ohio. I don't see why there is any question about Ohioans with Virgina Non Res permit holders carrying in Ohio.

[JustaShooter]

I believe you are misreading / misunderstanding. The Ohio AG office was notified by the VA AG on December 22 that VA was rescinding the reciprocal agreement effective Feb. 1. After that, the VA State Police notified the Ohio AG that they would extend a grace period through March 1st (note that the VA SP *cannot* enter into such agreements, only the VA AG can do so). See the notice on the Ohio AG website at http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Law- ... Agreements" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and then click on the state of VA in the map. The statement reads:

On December 22, 2015, the Virginia State Police notified our office that they would be cancelling the reciprocity agreement between our states effective February 1, 2016. However, on January 29, 2016, the Virginia State Police notified our office that due to ongoing discussions about changing Virginia law, they would honor our reciprocity agreement until March 1, 2016. Based on this situation, Attorney General DeWine recommends Ohio permit holders travelling through Virginia contact the Virginia State Police at (804) 674-2000 if they have any questions. The letters from Virginia are available here.

The VA AG has not notified the Ohio AG that the agreement would remain in effect. So, technically, the written agreement expired as of Feb 1., but the VA SP chose to continue to honor OH licenses as if the agreement was still in effect. Note, again that only the VA SP agreed to continue to honor our licenses, not the AG.

Since then, they passed a law that extended reciprocity or recognition to citizens holding both resident and non-resident permits/licenses to all of the affected states, including Ohio. However, that does not reinstate the reciprocal agreement, only provides recognition of our licenses in VA. But, even if you believe that the written agreement remains in effect until June 30, it does not do so after that date because the extension expires June 30. After that date, the law of the state of VA recognizes all licenses *without a written agreement* and directs the AG to enter into written agreements with those states that require them. But, Ohio does not require one so it seems unlikely that the VA AG will do so. And unless the VA AG decides to enter into a new reciprocity agreement with Ohio before then, we will not have one in effect after June 30 under any interpretation of the current state of affairs.

[Stryker74]

Since then, they passed a law that extended reciprocity or recognition to citizens holding both resident and non-resident permits/licenses to all of the affected states, including Ohio. However, that does not reinstate the reciprocal agreement, only provides recognition of our licenses in VA. But, even if you believe that the written agreement remains in effect until June 30, it does not do so after that date because the extension expires June 30. After that date, the law of the state of VA recognizes all licenses *without a written agreement* and directs the AG to enter into written agreements with those states that require them. But, Ohio does not require one so it seems unlikely that the VA AG will do so. And unless the VA AG decides to enter into a new reciprocity agreement with Ohio before then, we will not have one in effect after June 30 under any interpretation of the current state of affairs.

Furthermore, without a formal reciprocity agreement, Ohio residents that are using only a Virginia non-resident will no longer be able to legally carry in Ohio.

From the Legislative Summary of HB235, which became law 3/25/2015:

• Provides that if a person is an Ohio resident and has a valid concealed handgun license from another state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the Attorney General, that out-of-state license will be recognized in Ohio (R.C. 109.69(A) and (B)(1) and 2923.126(D)).
• Provides that if a person who is an Ohio resident and has a valid concealed handgun license from another state that has not entered into a reciprocity agreement with the Attorney General, that out-of-state license will be recognized in Ohio for a period of six months after the person has become a resident of Ohio (R.C. 109.69(A) and (B)(2) and 2923.126(D)).
• After the six-month period described in the preceding dot point, if the person wishes to obtain a concealed handgun license, the person must apply for an Ohio concealed handgun license (R.C. 109.69(A) and (C)(2) and 2923.126(D)).

[AlanM]

I don't see anywhere that any formal reciprocity agreement was ever rescinded. There was a threat to rescind at a certain date but before that date arrived, there was an agreement not to rescind the reciprocity agreements. Virginia even states that current FORMAL reciprocity agreements exist, at least until June 30, 2016, with a list of states including Ohio. I don't see why there is any question about Ohioans with Virgina Non Res permit holders carrying in Ohio.

I agree, however I do find it somewhat off putting that an Ohio resident would, or even can, side step the Ohio CHL system by legally carrying concealed on an out of state license/permit.
I am of the belief that this ability should be illegal.

HOWEVER, before I get flamed, I'm also of the opinion that having to get a license to carry concealed violates the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

By my way of thinking, the whole reason for a concealed carry licensing/permit system was that, back before computers, computer databases, and high speed communications between nearly any two points in the country was to pre-vet law abiding citizens and provide them with , if you will, a "Get Out OF Jail Free" card for when an LEO finds them carrying a concealed firearm which is and was, IIRC, illegal in all states.

In this era of massive data collection and instantaneous communication such a card isn't necessary.

We're all supposed to be assumed to be innocent until proven guilty, but how does an LEO that just stopped you for running a stop sign and found that you have a handgun concealed on your person know that you're not carrying under disability?

With today's communications systems the answer to that question should be, and probably is, available to him (or her) within seconds.

That being the case the only reason for concealed carry licensing is as a cash cow or a reason for a bureaucrat's continuing employment.