Drinking and CCWing no different than drinking and driving

[SIGnatious]

The Carrie Nation syndrome is at a fever pitch these days, with Draconian laws designed to discourage drinking and driving. Even so, it is still legal, and in my opinion ethical, to have a cold beer or a glass of wine with your meal, then get into your car and drive off.

The operative principle is moderation and common sense.

The same principle applies to drinking and carrying. Many states, including my home state of Pennsylvania, allow CCW in bars, and even while drinking SO LONG AS you excercise common sense and moderation. That means no over doing the drinking, and no causing trouble.

I don't drink often, but when I do go to a bar in PA, I carry. I commonly enjoy a meal and a drink, sometimes before picking up my daughter from the college (where I also legally carry in PA).

Pennsylvania has allowed bar carry, complete with alcohol consumption, for decades, without problems. Are Pennsylvanians more level-headed and law-abiding than the people of Ohio? I don't think so.

The bottom line is people who might cause a problem in a bar with a gun are the same people who aren't likely to bother going to the trouble to get a CHL anyway. Reasonable legislation would simply make it illegal to carry while intoxicated. After all, what's the difference if someone drinks at home then carrys?

Edited to fix HTML - Cable

[gd9704]

Sig,

You, sir, have wisdom, courage and common sense. Something our politicians lack, sad to say.

While I agree with all you say in your post, there are those in power (both politically and in the media) that would shout you down, claiming that we "drunken heat-packin'" folk would surely have shootouts in bars--killing innocent children in the process.

Ahh, I was in such a good mood before.........

[rhwiley]

I agree with most everything I've seen in this thread.

I've noticed for a long time, that most of Ohio law seems to be more in the mindset of taking away freedoms in the name of prevention. Like driving, I believe there should be a legal BAC limit for use of a weapon, and it should be enforced.

I haven't carried concealed before in an establishment, but I have carried during times when I've gone hunting. Personally, I think it should be common sense to most any level-headed individual.

If I know I'm going to behave myself with limiting myself to 1 or 2 beers, I have no problem having a weapon around me or on me. If I know I'm going to probably become completely sloshed - like a special occasion (this doesn't happen alot with me) then weapons stay at home or with a close friend who usually also has my car keys.

Why our state law makers have a problem with that - it really beats me. Oh well. I'm just hoping for the best in changes to the law in the upcoming year or two.

Bob Wiley

[haspelbein]

While I have absolutely no problem with anything that is being said in this thread, the title itself still irks me. I strongly believe that drinking and driving stands out in a class of stupidity by itself. Drunks with cars kill so many more people than drunks with guns.

[Petrovich]

While I have absolutely no problem with anything that is being said in this thread, the title itself still irks me. I strongly believe that drinking and driving stands out in a class of stupidity by itself. Drunks with cars kill so many more people than drunks with guns.

Well said, sir. It may also be a good idea to review the CCW law in Ohio. Get caught drinking, driving and carrying and the Judge is going to have a field day making hamburger outta yer butt.

Here's my take on drinking and carrying. Would you go to the rifle range after drinking??? No, because you are planning to shoot and anyone with a functioning brain knows that a very basic rule of handling firearms is not to drink while doing so.

Now let's transpose that concept over to carrying. We carry a concealed handgun with the idea that we may have to fire it. Granted, the odds are very small we actually will fire it, but the presumption that we will fire it is there.

Anytime there is the presumption we will handle a loaded firearm we must, by all the common sense rules of gun handling, abstain from drugs and alcohol.

[Cruiser]

While I have absolutely no problem with anything that is being said in this thread, the title itself still irks me. I strongly believe that drinking and driving stands out in a class of stupidity by itself. Drunks with cars kill so many more people than drunks with guns.

I grew up with an acceptance of Beer with lunch and just "having a Beer. So I find it difficult understanding people that cannot separate having a beer and being drunk. I do not consider it Stupid to have a beer or two at my VFW and driving home or even putting my gun back in my holster before driving home!
I grew up in a heavy German/Catholic area.

[Willy P]

Everyone remember the lady judge that was wasted and ran from the OSP a while back. Obviously knowing that people in power with educations and status can't keep it together what can they expect of us lowly pions. I understand their thinking completely. What is wrong with you all. Imagine anyone wanting to get a beer or even just want to eat in a nice diner that serves spirits and carry a gun too. Shame on us! ( you all know that is tongue in cheek , right? )

[ColGlock]

While I have absolutely no problem with anything that is being said in this thread, the title itself still irks me. I strongly believe that drinking and driving stands out in a class of stupidity by itself. Drunks with cars kill so many more people than drunks with guns.

Well said, sir. It may also be a good idea to review the CCW law in Ohio. Get caught drinking, driving and carrying and the Judge is going to have a field day making hamburger outta yer butt.

Here's my take on drinking and carrying. Would you go to the rifle range after drinking??? No, because you are planning to shoot and anyone with a functioning brain knows that a very basic rule of handling firearms is not to drink while doing so.

Now let's transpose that concept over to carrying. We carry a concealed handgun with the idea that we may have to fire it. Granted, the odds are very small we actually will fire it, but the presumption that we will fire it is there.

Anytime there is the presumption we will handle a loaded firearm we must, by all the common sense rules of gun handling, abstain from drugs and alcohol.

Your position however is unsupportable when you try to rationally examine it using facts and the real world.

ColGlock.

[Petrovich]

Everyone remember the lady judge that was wasted and ran from the OSP a while back. Obviously knowing that people in power with educations and status can't keep it together what can they expect of us lowly pions. I understand their thinking completely. What is wrong with you all. Imagine anyone wanting to get a beer or even just want to eat in a nice diner that serves spirits and carry a gun too. Shame on us! ( you all know that is tongue in cheek , right? )

You mean the Ohio supreme court judge??? Yep, I remember.

The fact she was driving drunk was bad. The fact she tried to use her status as a supreme court judge to evade arrest was worse.

The fact she's a liberal, anti concealed carry, left wingnut is unforgiveable.

[haspelbein]

I grew up with an acceptance of Beer with lunch and just "having a Beer. So I find it difficult understanding people that cannot separate having a beer and being drunk. I do not consider it Stupid to have a beer or two at my VFW and driving home or even putting my gun back in my holster before driving home!
I grew up in a heavy German/Catholic area.

I also grew up in a society where the social consumption of beer and wine was widely accepted: Germany. I further grew up within earshot of the village's gun range. It was set up for .22 handguns and rifles and had motorized targets out to a 100 yards. It was quite a nice range, because you fired your gun from the comfort of a heated room to the outside. Opposite from the shooting positions was a bar. As long as you left your rifle at the shooting bench and your beer at the bar, you were fine.

The annual Schützenfest was all about drinking and shooting. Even though about 70% of the village's population participated, I cannot recall any accidents at the range.

However, the death toll of drinking and driving was staggering. By the age of 20 I had lost three of my classmates to drinking and driving. I'm not concerned about somebody drinking a beer for lunch, which is also why I referred to "driving drunks" and not "drinking drivers", even though "a couple of beers" can be a slippery slope.

I simply consider operating a motor vehicle a more demanding and inherently more dangerous process that is far more negatively affected by alcohol than carrying a firearm. That said, I would personally also never handle a firearm while intoxicated.

[Petrovich]

Your position however is unsupportable when you try to rationally examine it using facts and the real world.

ColGlock.

I see your position, and I understand it. 99% of the time you will be right, and I will be wrong concerning this issue.

However, I will cling to my principle that any amount of alcohol will, to a greater or lesser degree, affect a person's judgement.

Handling a firearm demands that we use the best judgement we are capable of. Any impairment to that judgement is a negative....IMHO.

A very large number of people in prison today are there because they did something criminal while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Granted, they partook of these substances to a much greater degree than what we are discussing on this thread....but it's something to think about.

Mr. Haspelbein.....your description of Germany's shooting range practices are very frightening in the least. In America such practices are criminal. BTW...it is a criminal offense to handle a firearm while under the influence of alcohol, and that applies on private property as well. It falls under 'mishandling of a firearm' and it is a misdemeanor.

As an added note....to be convicted of any misdemeanor involving a firearm will likely cost you your CHL.

[Glock and dagger]

No kidding....

[haspelbein]

[...]
Mr. Haspelbein.....your description of Germany's shooting range practices are very frightening in the least. In America such practices are criminal.

Yes, interestingly enough, the attitude and customs regarding firearms (especially for sporting purposes) are very different. Amazingly though, most Germans are just as frightened by American customs.

[Mark J]

The Blood alcohol level for DUI/ OVI is .08. The level my department will alllow us to carry is .04. I don't know how much beer/wine/liquor that equates to, but most of us figure we can have one.

[Cruiser]

The Blood alcohol level for DUI/ OVI is .08. The level my department will alllow us to carry is .04. I don't know how much beer/wine/liquor that equates to, but most of us figure we can have one.

What level does Ohio allow for handling Firearms? Does this also apply to CCW? Or is it Zero Tolorance in the eyes of the State?

Found it! in HB12, Influence for firearms is the same as with a vehicle.
Sec. 2923.16.
(D) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded
handgun in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation
or possession, any of the following applies:

(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of
abuse, or a combination of them.

(2) The person's whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath,
or urine contains a concentration of alcohol prohibited for
persons operating a vehicle, as specified in division (A) of
section 4511.19 of the Revised Code, regardless of whether the
person at the time of the transportation or possession as
described in this division is the operator of or a passenger in
the motor vehicle