Ayepleasantguywhopacks wrote:I'll second that..slickt0mmy wrote:Just contributed to the Legal Defense fund through the http://www.ohioccw.org/cantonpd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; webpage. I encourage everyone to do the same. Also, count me in for a walk, if one is planned.
D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk
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- wobblygoblin
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson
"If stupidity weighed an ounce and gullibility a gram, the population of this country would create a black hole that would swallow the planet."
"If stupidity weighed an ounce and gullibility a gram, the population of this country would create a black hole that would swallow the planet."
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
If you belong to other gun forums, cross post them this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxXpNBdrVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
Life Member NRA
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
Life Member NRA
- wobblygoblin
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
I am tempted to go to the Canton PD Facebook and post the link to the video.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson
"If stupidity weighed an ounce and gullibility a gram, the population of this country would create a black hole that would swallow the planet."
"If stupidity weighed an ounce and gullibility a gram, the population of this country would create a black hole that would swallow the planet."
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
I think the driver was weak in his attempt to notify. This is why I train my students to have a brief presentation, with comfortable verbiage, and to practice it ad nauseam, until they can do it automatically under stress.
What surprises me is that Officer 1, who knows he is being recorded, doesn't offer the common courtesy one should afford to the public i.e. the taxpayers who provide his wages, including the driver. I am also disappointed in Officer 2 who does nothing to dissuade Officer 1's running commentary. I think Officers 1 & 2 have created some job related problems for themselves.
What surprises me is that Officer 1, who knows he is being recorded, doesn't offer the common courtesy one should afford to the public i.e. the taxpayers who provide his wages, including the driver. I am also disappointed in Officer 2 who does nothing to dissuade Officer 1's running commentary. I think Officers 1 & 2 have created some job related problems for themselves.
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
I sent the link to Tom Gresham (Gun Talk) and Mark Walters (Armed American Radio). I hope contributions come in from across the country.
NRA Life, SAF, GCO, GSSA, GCA
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
There is really two issues I have concerns about relative to this video.
The obvious one is the over-the-top reaction by the LEO throughout the stop. I will lump in the less-than-stellar stop procedures (searching the car with the driver unsecured, etc) with this category and call it LE Misconduct/Negligence. This area is easy to get worked up about--and I definitely am--and could lead to protest efforts on its own merit. The nature of this stop and the behavior of the LE's will likely be the driving force for this incident to "go viral" in a way that dwarfs the Dayton Sunoco attempted robbery.
The other issue is the notification issue. This mild-mannered man attempted to notify (arguably weakly) several times. I suspect it was not in his nature to question authority like many of us would feel comfortable doing. So, when he was told to keep quiet, he did what he was told. After all, we are told to obey "all lawful orders" during a stop. So what trumps what? If I haven't "successfully" notified, but have been told to keep quiet by the LE, do I then break the order to comply with notification? This, I think, will be a crucial question coming from this case that will lead to the repeal of notification. THIS IS IMPORTANT: Even if the LE had not used foul language and threatened physical harm to this driver, the notification issue would be problematic in this case. The behavior simply exacerbated the situation.
Right now, the notification issue is in the forefront because there is a man charged with a crime as a result.
Of course, I suspect if notification was not the law, this particular LE would have found something to blow up about and we'd be watching this video still...
The obvious one is the over-the-top reaction by the LEO throughout the stop. I will lump in the less-than-stellar stop procedures (searching the car with the driver unsecured, etc) with this category and call it LE Misconduct/Negligence. This area is easy to get worked up about--and I definitely am--and could lead to protest efforts on its own merit. The nature of this stop and the behavior of the LE's will likely be the driving force for this incident to "go viral" in a way that dwarfs the Dayton Sunoco attempted robbery.
The other issue is the notification issue. This mild-mannered man attempted to notify (arguably weakly) several times. I suspect it was not in his nature to question authority like many of us would feel comfortable doing. So, when he was told to keep quiet, he did what he was told. After all, we are told to obey "all lawful orders" during a stop. So what trumps what? If I haven't "successfully" notified, but have been told to keep quiet by the LE, do I then break the order to comply with notification? This, I think, will be a crucial question coming from this case that will lead to the repeal of notification. THIS IS IMPORTANT: Even if the LE had not used foul language and threatened physical harm to this driver, the notification issue would be problematic in this case. The behavior simply exacerbated the situation.
Right now, the notification issue is in the forefront because there is a man charged with a crime as a result.
Of course, I suspect if notification was not the law, this particular LE would have found something to blow up about and we'd be watching this video still...
Chris
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Crushing the First Amendment, one post at a time!
"If you walk out of your house carrying your gun (openly or otherwise) and you DO NOT fully understand the law, then you are NOT completely armed..."
- dregan1000
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
With an even unhappier (is that a word?) outcome, based on that officer's remarks.charben wrote:
Of course, I suspect if notification was not the law, this particular LE would have found something to blow up about and we'd be watching this video still...
Donated.
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- wkdravenna
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
This is absolutely amazing and unjust. Police are servents of the people.
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
- wkdravenna
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
to late. you should tommrow though. i am sure they will have removed my post by then.wobblygoblin wrote:I am tempted to go to the Canton PD Facebook and post the link to the video.
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
Discounting anything else, the issue of notification is key. I train people to talk over the officer, if necessary, to make the notification as prompt as possible. This would be a "dunker" if the notification would have been made audibly by the driver and subsequently recorded on the video.
Had the notification been made promptly, Officers 1 & 2 would have had nothing with which to charge the driver vis-a-vis failure to notify. Correct?
Had the notification been made promptly, Officers 1 & 2 would have had nothing with which to charge the driver vis-a-vis failure to notify. Correct?
- wkdravenna
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
This man was scared, WHERE in the country do police search the car WITH SOMONE IN IT? Is it not normal not to remove everyone from a car before searching ?!? This is bunk, he should have first made contact with the officer. These officers are nothing but punks with badges. Im not an expert but i've seen to much "cops" on tv the fox show and I've NEVER seen a police officer in the line of duty NOT remove everyone from a car they searched this is bunk.
Furthermore, I've been in this area of Canton frequently before I moved to Toledo. . . Who was the lady, why did they let her go ? If she was a postittue why was she not arrested. They did not even establish who she was, what she was doing ! They just tell her to leave what is that that is also bad police work. In that area yes she could have been a prostitue or just somone who lived in the area. Its hard to say becasue the police work is so so shotty here. What is this a 3rd world country police academy no professionalism at all.
Furthermore, I've been in this area of Canton frequently before I moved to Toledo. . . Who was the lady, why did they let her go ? If she was a postittue why was she not arrested. They did not even establish who she was, what she was doing ! They just tell her to leave what is that that is also bad police work. In that area yes she could have been a prostitue or just somone who lived in the area. Its hard to say becasue the police work is so so shotty here. What is this a 3rd world country police academy no professionalism at all.
Last edited by wkdravenna on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
Unfortunately it is up to the LEO's mood to allow you to notify and also to hear it. Then it is up the LEO to charge you with either failure to notify or disorderly conduct and or failure to follow a lawful order.. Actually the LEO has a menu of things he can charge you with based on his mood.Tweed Ring wrote:Discounting anything else, the issue of notification is key. I train people to talk over the officer, if necessary, to make the notification as prompt as possible. This would be a "dunker" if the notification would have been made audibly by the driver and subsequently recorded on the video.
Had the notification been made promptly, Officers 1 & 2 would have had nothing with which to charge the driver vis-a-vis failure to notify. Correct?
Face it you're at his mercy.
Laws need to be changed.
Last edited by pleasantguywhopacks on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxXpNBdrVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
Life Member NRA
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
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- 45Automatic
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
Donation sent.
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
Well, 55 seconds passed from when the LEO actually made contact with the driver to when you actually notified, at least according to the time stamps on Youtube.
When the officer was finally listening to him, he went on about looking for a companies truck and about the company he was keeping - instead of notifying. A lot of things went wrong but I didn't see the drivers mouth duct taped at anytime...
LEO should be let go, charged with his threats and intimidation, maybe both of them since the follower did just that, followed.
When the officer was finally listening to him, he went on about looking for a companies truck and about the company he was keeping - instead of notifying. A lot of things went wrong but I didn't see the drivers mouth duct taped at anytime...
LEO should be let go, charged with his threats and intimidation, maybe both of them since the follower did just that, followed.
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Re: D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Bers
I'm pretty sure I heard him twice attempt to notify. After the 1st attempt he was told to shut up.