Hypothetical question.

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Petrovich
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Hypothetical question.

Post by Petrovich »

I have a question that's been on my mind for some time, and maybe the folks on this forum can help me answer it. There's no practical reason for this question as it is purely hypothetical.

Open carry has always been legal in Ohio. The thing that made open carry nearly impossible, however, were the various laws concerning transporting firearms in vehicles (mainly).

Now that HB12 is the law, open carry in vehicles by licensees is mandatory.

Here's the question. All social issues aside, is it now legal for a CHL holder to openly carry a sidearm, without bothering to conceal it?

Obviously, it goes without saying that other provisions in the law would have to be followed i.e. government offices, etc.

Again, this is a purely hypothetical question, and I do not intend to carry openly; nor do I advocate it.
mattswabb
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Post by mattswabb »

You are not required to conceal. I live in a bad neighborhood and have approached the police on patrol and I always open carried then. The reason I open carry around the police is so that I do not have to notify them I am concealing and I don't have to produce my license.

Only once did an officer ask to see my CHL while I was open carrying. I informed him that I was open carrying and that no license was needed. He asked me again and I repeated my reply and that was all that was said.

matt
Brian_Horton
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Re: Hypothetical question.

Post by Brian_Horton »

Petrofergov wrote:Open carry has always been legal in Ohio. The thing that made open carry nearly impossible, however, were the various laws concerning transporting firearms in vehicles (mainly).
I would not say this is really the truth. It is more like truth in theory which is alot different than practice. Prior to the Klein vs Leis SC decision open carry was "legal" but you ran a really good chance of being arrested and charged with something like disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, or some other such charge.

Yes, there is no requirement in Ohio for someone with a CHL to conceal. They may open carry.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

Happiness is a crew served weapon.
Petrovich
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Re: Hypothetical question.

Post by Petrovich »

Brian_Horton wrote:[
I would not say this is really the truth. It is more like truth in theory which is alot different than practice. Prior to the Klein vs Leis SC decision open carry was "legal" but you ran a really good chance of being arrested and charged with something like disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, or some other such charge.

Yes, there is no requirement in Ohio for someone with a CHL to conceal. They may open carry.
Quite true. Not to mention the fact that open carry defeats the ultimate purpose for which HB12 was passed. That purpose was to force the criminal to consider the possibility that his next victim 'might' be armed, thereby giving some protection to everyone.
ballistic
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Hypothetical Question

Post by ballistic »

During the OSC Klein v. Leis oral arguments Justice Evelyn Lundberg Stratton noted from the bench that she was aware of many people who already openly carried. Constitutionally, open carry has never been illegal in Ohio, but this does not immunize someone from community scrutiny or law enforcement action. LEO's will always respond to citizen reports of "man (or woman) with a gun." Most people not oriented to the "gun culture" believe it illegal to openly carry and reflexively (and wrongly) consider it brandishing of a weapon. Persons who customarily carry openly in Ohio are those "historically" known as an open-carrier to the local LEO's or whose communities already tolerate it. Some cities (e.g. Toledo) have outrightly banned the open carrying of weapons on their streets. As Justice Maureen O'Connor might say this creates a "chilling effect" on the exercise of a constitutional right. In short, open carry in Ohio is not as widespread as some of its avatars would have you believe. Unless you're prepared to endure a long, tedious and expensive legal hassle I would not advise openly carrying at the height of the business lunch hour (or any other time) in Cleveland, Youngstown, Columbus or most other Ohio cities even though it's your right to do so.
ballistic
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Hypothetical Question

Post by ballistic »

In a 5/5/05 posting to the OFCC CCW-Talk forum Jim Triskett provided a comprehensive listing of Toledo's gun laws. Sect. 549.18 Weapon Possession in Public Places Prohibited (presumably from Toledo's Municipal Code) states: "(a) No person, in and about the streets, alleys or other public places of the City, or at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person, or while on a suitable firing range, or while being used for lawful hunting, or while unloaded at a public firearms display, show or exhibition, shall be in possession of; carry or have on or about his person, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or any weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of expanding gases, or any bowie knife, dirk, blackjack, billyclub, brass knuckles or other weapon capable of inflicting bodily harm." Since there is also listed a separate section specifically addressing the prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, it appears Sect. 549.18 addresses the general carrying of any weapon, concealed or otherwise. While in conflict with the State of Ohio's general laws regarding concealed carry of a handgun and the Ohio Constitution's Art. 1, Sect. 4, Toledo's Municipal Code has not been amended and presumably remains in force. If anyone has knowledge or information to the contrary please let us know via this medium.
Petrovich
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Re: Hypothetical Question

Post by Petrovich »

ballistic wrote:In a 5/5/05 posting to the OFCC CCW-Talk forum Jim Triskett provided a comprehensive listing of Toledo's gun laws. Sect. 549.18 Weapon Possession in Public Places Prohibited (presumably from Toledo's Municipal Code) states: "(a) No person, in and about the streets, alleys or other public places of the City, or at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person, or while on a suitable firing range, or while being used for lawful hunting, or while unloaded at a public firearms display, show or exhibition, shall be in possession of; carry or have on or about his person, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or any weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of expanding gases, or any bowie knife, dirk, blackjack, billyclub, brass knuckles or other weapon capable of inflicting bodily harm." Since there is also listed a separate section specifically addressing the prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, it appears Sect. 549.18 addresses the general carrying of any weapon, concealed or otherwise. While in conflict with the State of Ohio's general laws regarding concealed carry of a handgun and the Ohio Constitution's Art. 1, Sect. 4, Toledo's Municipal Code has not been amended and presumably remains in force. If anyone has knowledge or information to the contrary please let us know via this medium.
I guess I won't be visiting toledo.
Ring
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Post by Ring »

Brian_Horton
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Post by Brian_Horton »

Ring, I agree that open carry is legal in Toledo and that their anti open carry laws are illegal. But the fact of the matter is that if you open carry in Toledo you can expect to be arrested and charged. You will lose you carry gun, spend lots of money on lawyers, and spend lots of time over several months in court. Ultimately I would expect you to win, but it is not something that most people can afford to go through. This letter wouldn't help you a bit unfortunately.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

Happiness is a crew served weapon.
Ring
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Post by Ring »

i would sue them for enough cash to make it worth while... just like clide is getting sued now for the "no guns in the park" junk..
Brian_Horton
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Post by Brian_Horton »

Ring wrote:i would sue them for enough cash to make it worth while... just like clide is getting sued now for the "no guns in the park" junk..
Slight correction on that though. The OFCC is in court with Clyde to have them remove their rule against CCW in parks. We are not suing them for money. Though it is costing Clyde to pay their lawyers to represent the city in court.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

Happiness is a crew served weapon.
Ring
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Post by Ring »

you should go 4 punitive damages then to help fund your effort :)
Brian_Horton
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Post by Brian_Horton »

Ring wrote:you should go 4 punitive damages then to help fund your effort :)
I think that would require someone getting arrested and charged. To sue for punitive damages would require that they committed some act against us. No one has volunteered to do that just yet, though Mr. Beatty has challenged Toledo's no carry in parks rule.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

Happiness is a crew served weapon.
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