Vehicle Carry/Storage

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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Here's my take on the whole vehicle storage this. Standard IANAL clause applies.
(E) No person who has been issued a license or temporary
emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section
2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code shall do any of the
following:
Ok, this is the part of the vehicle transport law that applies to license holders.
(1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor
vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster and in
plain sight on the person's person or it is securely encased by
being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case
that is in plain sight and that is locked;
Here it says you cannot transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless it is carried/stored according to the three methods noted. No mention of the vehicles location or whether it is being operated.
(2) If the person is transporting or has a loaded handgun in
a motor vehicle in a manner authorized under division (E)(1) of
this section, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded
handgun from the holster, glove compartment, or case, knowingly
grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with
the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or
fingers while the motor vehicle is being operated on a street,
highway, or public property unless the person removes, attempts to
remove, grasps, holds, or has the contact with the loaded handgun
pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law
enforcement officer;
And here is where it says you can't touch or remove it unless an LEO tells you to, or if it is not being operated on a street, highway, or public property.

But wait, there's more! Earlier in the statutes it says:
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded
firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is
accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the
vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in
a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of
the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the
vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for
the purpose;

(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon
stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will
not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.
This is the old law that is still in effect that keeps non-license holders from carrying loaded. Until you read Section G, which has the excemptions.
(2) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division
(B) or (C) of this section of improperly handling firearms in a
motor vehicle that the actor transported or had the firearm in the
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and while the motor vehicle
was on the actor's own property, provided that this affirmative
defense is not available unless the person, prior to arriving at
the actor's own property, did not transport or possess the firearm
in a motor vehicle in a manner prohibited by division (B) or (C)
of this section while the motor vehicle was being operated on a
street, highway, or other public or private property used by the
public for vehicular traffic.
This is the part that lets anyone, regardless of license status, have a loaded firearm in a vehicle on their own property.

In summary, it is my understanding that all vehicle carry rules apply, regardless of operational status of the vehicle, unless you are on your own property. So, the locked case must remain in plain sight in a public parking lot, but not in your driveway. And, you can conceal your firearm while driving on your own property.
Daniel White
NRA Training Counselor
Northcoast Firearms Training

We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by Glock Rock »

So, the locked case must remain in plain sight in a public parking lot
Man is that freakin' ridiculous! :evil:
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Post by Cruiser »

Glock Rock wrote:
So, the locked case must remain in plain sight in a public parking lot
Man is that freakin' ridiculous! :evil:
You got it right! Also remember not to touch your gun while the vehical is running!
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Post by SMMAssociates »

IMHO and IANAL....

The problem with unloading a gun - removing the magazine - to store it legally as unloaded (IMHO the glove box or locked console would be acceptable, as well as a steal-me), is that most people who carry semi's keep one in the chamber.

Legally, the gun is loaded even if there are interlocks to keep it from firing.

Removing that last round is dangerous to the CHL holder, passengers, and passers-by while within a motor vehicle, and downright likely to give sheeple a heart attack if done outside the vehicle, not to mention being one heck of an advertisement....

Anybody else see "poison pill" here?

:evil:
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Ohio Carry

Post by Cruiser »

"Ohio Carry"is an empty chamber!
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Post by BEAR! »

My wife has a Grand Caravan in which the glove box does not lock, however there is a box under the passenger seat that does lock. Under the law is putting the handgun in the locking box under the seat legal?

I would carry every day if not for the FUBAR vehicle portion of the law. :evil:

My Suburban doesn't have a locking glove box either. :(
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Cruiser:

Dunno - I think "Ohio Carry", when applied to vehicles, might be "FOPA rules, in the trunk." :roll:

Bear:

I'm not sure.... I think that would qualify for any of the "locked away" carry modes (FOPA if you don't have a trunk), but it might not be "in plain sight" enough.

Regards,
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Post by Glock and dagger »

Sure thing...
Last edited by Glock and dagger on Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Glock and dagger wrote:Let me just point out a couple of things.

1. Carry in a holster on your person is acceptable, coorect?
I assume you're talking about Vehicular Carry, in which case the answer is "Yes, but in plain sight." "Plain Sight" is barely defined, although there seems to be a precedent to allow a bit of leeway here - perhaps more than the average anti LEO might feel comfortable with.
2. A loaded firearm in a locked box is acceptable, right?
The steal-me box must be in plain sight too. However, there are some holes there when working with a glove box that can lock, or any container that can be locked when the vehicle lacks a locking glovebox or console, or trunk. Iffy if the LEO's an anti, but probably not a problem otherwise.
3. It's only illegal when you get caught.
Gotta say "yes".... Some of the restrictions imply X-Ray vision, anatomically impossible techniques, endangering yourself, passengers, or passers-by, and scaring the crap out of sheeple. The latter can result in frantic calls to the PD, and the responding LEO may be rather unhappy to have his coffee and donuts interrupted by a bogus call....
A solution for those who are less concerned about the language of the law, but don't want to fall victim to it.... have a briefcase sitting on your seat, unlocked, and carry any way you normally would, and should you be pulled over, discreetly put it in the box and lock it before you actually stop. Then, act normal.
While this might be possible, it wouldn't be legal. Worse, an LEO could presume any movement but putting your hands on the steering wheel to be Felony Touching, and if he's in a bad mood, you're really toasted.
This is not legal advice, nor a suggestion to actually do this.
I'm not sure it's not.... No matter.... IANAL, too....
As a matter of fact, if you live in one of the less sympathetic carry areas, I wouldn't even try it, because those jack-boot thug wannabes will already view you as the enemy, no matter what you do with your firearm. Where I live, I could probably get away with it, though, because our sheriffs and cops are not firm believers in exercising such a tacticless and stupid loophole. Know your cops if you think this is a good idea. I, personally, do not do this.
I don't know if I agree with all of this - there have been very few prosecutions (can't say how many) for any of this, though. In most areas the rank & file would rather tell you to "please obey the law" and keep on trucking than to do the paperwork over nonsense. 'Course, if you have an attitude problem, you might get a nasty surprise, and once it gets past the field troops, there are going to be more anti's and more hazards.

Just IMHO, of course.
Stu.

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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Glock and dagger wrote: 3. It's only illegal when you get caught.
No, it is illegal whether you get caught or not.
Daniel White
NRA Training Counselor
Northcoast Firearms Training

We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by Petrovich »

Cable wrote:
Glock and dagger wrote: 3. It's only illegal when you get caught.
No, it is illegal whether you get caught or not.
How very true.

It's not what you do that matters. It's your intent.
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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Petrofergov wrote:It's not what you do that matters. It's your intent.
Except with some of the provisions of our nutty ccw law where you can commit an "accidental felony." :roll:

Like when you can violate plain sight because they never said what plain sight is.

Oh, and let's not forget "attempted felony touching" of a firearm.

Hopefully, Petro or Blackwell will help us fix some of this garbage.
Daniel White
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Northcoast Firearms Training

We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Re: Ohio Carry

Post by TunnelRat »

Cruiser wrote:"Ohio Carry"is an empty chamber!
Yup, and drop the magazine when you have to leave the gun in the car....
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Post by Glock and dagger »

whatever....
Last edited by Glock and dagger on Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Glock Rock »

Glock and dagger wrote:Let me just point out a couple of things.
We are not going to let you point out illegal things here. Don't you know that every anti-gun nut in Ohio reads this board?

Show some responsibility before one of your points gets us in media hot water & the Plain Dealer starts copying & pasting the gun nuts over at the OFCC sponsored web board.
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