Carrying a expandable baton???

[charles1198]

Some departments are actually getting away from the use of large Maglites and going to small high intensity LED lights to avoid officers using it as a club. WHY? Because of the often used and often won argument in court ;
"So Officer, you used a flashlight to beat the defendant? A large flashlight is like a steel pipe filled with lead wieghts isn't it Officer? Would you beat my client with a lead filled steel pipe?
So yeah, get out of the car and use your baton or flashlight - see how far the Castle Doctrine protects you.

Even small LED lights can be pretty wicked.



A nice LED light makes an excellent improvised weapon, and can be used much like a Kubotan or even a yawara. I carry one all the time. It's dark at least a third of the day.

So yeah, get out of the car and use your baton or flashlight - see how far the Castle Doctrine protects you.

It's not just about Castle Doctrine.

ORC 2923.12
(D) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A)(1) of this section of carrying or having control of a weapon other than a handgun and other than a dangerous ordnance that the actor was not otherwise prohibited by law from having the weapon and that any of the following applies:

(1) The weapon was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for defensive purposes while the actor was engaged in or was going to or from the actor’s lawful business or occupation, which business or occupation was of a character or was necessarily carried on in a manner or at a time or place as to render the actor particularly susceptible to criminal attack, such as would justify a prudent person in going armed.

(2) The weapon was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for defensive purposes while the actor was engaged in a lawful activity and had reasonable cause to fear a criminal attack upon the actor, a member of the actor’s family, or the actor’s home, such as would justify a prudent person in going armed.

(3) The weapon was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for any lawful purpose and while in the actor’s own home.

[Saltcreek]

Even small LED lights can be pretty wicked.



A nice LED light makes an excellent improvised weapon, and can be used much like a Kubotan or even a yawara. I carry one all the time. It's dark at least a third of the day.

--------------------------
Yes, I agree, but most people are not talking about using a light as a Kubotan or yawwara stick, and probably never heard of one and have even less training on their use than a a baton. My impression was people are speaking of using flashlights as clubs. Kubotans, yawara sticks, PR-24s and properly used batons are tools for trained individuals. Amateurs trying to use them against nuttly criminals or druggies will get hurt. MOST people are not kung-foo charley. My comment stands, get a handgun license or get the heck out of Dodge if you possibly can. Even police escalate "use of force". Having delt with knife wielding criminals before REAL close-up, I didn't play "he has a knife so I get a little stick". The way it goes is "he gets a knife, I get a gun" "he has a gun, I get a bigger gun". Kool toys get you hurt unless you are an EXPERT in their use.

[BobK]

My comment stands, get a handgun license or get the heck out of Dodge if you possibly can.

I agree with you that handguns and 3 ton vehicles are the best choices.

I only mentioned canes as a backup choice. For example, if I am going to eat in a Chili's or TGI Fridays, I'll bring a cane with me inside since I am not allowed to have a handgun.

I've been taught and have maintained practice with a cane. They are entirely unobtrusive and yet can be strikingly (pardon the pun) effective.

[Saltcreek]

My comment stands, get a handgun license or get the heck out of Dodge if you possibly can.

I agree with you that handguns and 3 ton vehicles are the best choices.

I only mentioned canes as a backup choice. For example, if I am going to eat in a Chili's or TGI Fridays, I'll bring a cane with me inside since I am not allowed to have a handgun.

I've been taught and have maintained practice with a cane. They are entirely unobtrusive and yet can be strikingly (pardon the pun) effective.

There you hit the nail on the head - practice. I agree with the use of a cane, I carry one myself because of my knees. I don't always need it. A cane can go where NOTHING else can. you can take a cane on a plane. no one will take a cane from a handicap person. I do encourage study on the use of the cane, along with a proper cane. Not like ones sold in drug stores or lightwieght aluminum ones. Cane Masters had really great canes (1 inch hickory heart) that are great for real everyday use along with use designed for combat. They have a website (just search Cane Masters) and have several DVDs on the proper use of a cane for self defense. Again- if you have it, get some training in its use.
My argument is against the use of little gadgets that cause you to have to get to up close and personal and folks talk about using as their only means of defense, maybe because they saw on TV or a magazine how kool they were. A small example of not getting enmeshed in gadget detail. In a restaurant I am confronted by an assault of some sort. Am I going to try to use the cute Kubotan I never practice with, or am I going to clobber the guy with a handy chair? Kubotans are used primarily as control type weapons, I use it on someone to make them comply as a Police Officer. When I am with the wife and kids, I am not interested in Mr. Bad comlying and being submissive. I intend either he be VERY disabled or dead, enough for my family and me to retreat out of the area, or be safe in our home. Canes are good, they have very legitimate use - but train.

[FireEMSPolice]

Dont carry an expandable baton unless you are trained in its use. Training consists of where to strike someone and what it could do if struck. You dont just swing it around and try to hit your target with it. Hit someone the wrong way and it could prove lethal/fatal.

[charles1198]

I would certainly rather be armed with a Mossy or a 1911, but in lieu of proper armament, if my life depends on it, I'll take whatever is handy -- be it a flashlight (no matter what size), a chair, pen, OC, knife, my car, a clipboard, baton, umbrella, rock, or even a club. I'm not too picky...I want to live.

A lot can can be said for training, and rightfully so. A lot can also be said for improvisation and using what you have, whether you know exactly what you are doing or not. Instinct and the will to survive can make up for a lack of training. It can also land you in hot water if you make a bad decision. Training reduces, but does not eliminate, that possibility.

As for someone being killed when you defending yourself against their attack -- that is ALWAYS a possibility. It's a good idea to learn something about anatomy so that you don't accidentally do damage that you aren't intending to do. Nevertheless, fighting is serious business and things happen, sometimes quite unpredictably.

[HkSniper]

FireEMSPolice said it well, if you have not been given proper training in the use of a baton you can land yourself into serious liability issues if you ever had to use it.

Also, it's another step on the use of force spectrum that you are better off avoiding. This is the reason you see officers ditching their batons now a days, carrying only OC and their taser as less lethal means. The baton carries too much liability with it. If you were to use it even under truly rightful circumstances, all it can take is one thing to completely turn it against you.

In my opinion, if you want a less-lethal alternative you are better off carrying a good brand of OC, or getting used to the objects around you that may, if given the circumstances where you need to defend yourself, that can be used as an improvised weapon to defend yourself, which plenty of things have been suggested.

[FireEMSPolice]

Charles mentioned a flashlight.

Streamlight has an LED model that you an use as a "steady burn" flashlight and you can push the button and it turns into a "strobe light" effect. You can use the "strobe light" function to blind & disorient your attacker. Its really cool.

[rogerx]

Hi everyone, Can somebody tell me where I can issue my baton so that it would be legal to bring.

[BobK]

Hi everyone, Can somebody tell me where I can issue my baton so that it would be legal to bring.

I see it is your first post, so WELCOME!

I don't understand what you mean by "where I can issue my baton"?

Are you trying to ask how it would need to be carried to be legal?

[bangingears]

I used to carry my asp baton in my car everywhere, till my truck got broken into and stolen, I now have a 5 d cell mag-lite

[dwcbob]

What ever unlicensed weapon you choose to carry, finding yourself in a situation requiring you to use it for protection and this incident leading to you being brought up on charges, training that a prosecutor can prove that you acquired in the use of your weapon of choice can be used against you in negative way.
this is true of unarmed as well as armed combative training, the supposed logic is that the more training that you have in handling violent situations increases your ability to handle them with a degree of control that allows you to stop the threat without doing excessive or permanent damage.

It is at the discretion of the prosecuting attorney as to how to proceed with the case, this was a lecture that I received from an assistant DA some years ago when I was teaching martial arts. given that this individual was a friend and student of mine I believe that he was telling me the truth, it was a rather sobering conversation that we shared.

[andersonix]

I also carry my asp baton everywhere, is it always in my compartment.

[BobK]

I also carry my asp baton everywhere, is it always in my compartment.

I see it is your first post, so WELCOME!

[Klingon00]

The way I understand it, if in the event that you are forced to defend yourself, it doesn't much matter what you use as long as deadly force is justified. If you can show that you were justified in believing your life was in danger, then you are justified in using deadly force regardless of whether the weapon was legal to carry or not or improvised from stuff you happened to have at hand. This is of course up to and until the threat ends and the attacker stops doing whatever it was they did to cause you to fear for your life.

The distinction that needs to be made however is that if the item can be shown to be primarily a deadly weapon as its intended purpose such as a telescoping baton, then you put yourself in legal jeopardy ANY time you are concealed carrying it that you are not currently and actively defending your life with it. If you are found to be carrying a deadly weapon, you ARE at risk of prosecution.

If however you happen to have a flashlight or some other tool (even a pocket knife) on your person who's primary purpose is peaceful and you can justify a peaceful purpose for carrying it, then I would expect there not to be a problem carrying it most of the time. The fact that it could be used as an improvised weapon is irrelevant since you aren't carrying it as a weapon.

Those who cary ASP batons in your vehicles beware, you can be prosecuted just as if you were carrying a concealed loaded firearm without a CHL! I hope you are aware of the risks involved.

Personally, I feel that the Second Amendment doesn't specify only firearms and therefore Ohio law should be changed to reflect this. But then again, I feel its already unconstitutional to require me to get a license from the government to exercise my right to self defense anyway. However, I am a law abiding citizen and that is currently the law in Ohio and will follow it as I work to try and change it.