Off-duty carry for LEO's
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Off-duty carry for LEO's
Question on off-duty LEO carry. I've read quite a few posts to this discussion group make reference that off-duty LEO's must adhere to the same "carry" rules that we must. Where is this in the "code"?
Also, what is the procedure for carrying on a bicycle - must I carry open or concealed?
Also, what is the procedure for carrying on a bicycle - must I carry open or concealed?
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Off Duty carry by LE is not in the bill, but in a 27 pg opinion by Petro, & can be found on the AG's website.
Bicycle is not a motor vehicle, so a bicycle keep it concealed like you would do if taking a walk.
Bicycle is not a motor vehicle, so a bicycle keep it concealed like you would do if taking a walk.
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Molon Labe
Molon Labe
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I have read that opinion and it does state that off duty fall under the same rules for CCW as the rest of the us poor slobs.
Funny thing is that many LE agencies have some wording in there policies to the effect that full time LEOs are considered on duty 24x7. Typically this does not apply to there reserve groups or part timers, just the full time officers (note I said typically, I am sure there are departments out there that do not make that distinction).
Not sure how that fits into the opinion.
Personally I would like to see all officers carrying 24x7 - if they want to, I also would like the restrictions placed on us unwashed masses regarding carry removed...
Funny thing is that many LE agencies have some wording in there policies to the effect that full time LEOs are considered on duty 24x7. Typically this does not apply to there reserve groups or part timers, just the full time officers (note I said typically, I am sure there are departments out there that do not make that distinction).
Not sure how that fits into the opinion.
Personally I would like to see all officers carrying 24x7 - if they want to, I also would like the restrictions placed on us unwashed masses regarding carry removed...
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
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Henry David Thoreau
Learn to fight and practice what you learn.
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Well if they're "on-duty" 24/7 how do they get by with drinking a beer at the game? While carrying?jburtonpdx wrote:I have read that opinion and it does state that off duty fall under the same rules for CCW as the rest of the us poor slobs.
Funny thing is that many LE agencies have some wording in there policies to the effect that full time LEOs are considered on duty 24x7. Typically this does not apply to there reserve groups or part timers, just the full time officers (note I said typically, I am sure there are departments out there that do not make that distinction).
Not sure how that fits into the opinion.
Personally I would like to see all officers carrying 24x7 - if they want to, I also would like the restrictions placed on us unwashed masses regarding carry removed...
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LEO CCW
I respond to this question so much that I just end up cutting-and pasting from old posts from various fourms. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.
:')
Here in Ohio like most places in the U.S. most LEOs are expected at all times to intervene, if practical and safe, if we observe a felony in progress. That means that we are always acting in our official capacity and in the scope of our duties 24/7. While I'm not being paid while off duty, should something occur that I must step into I am automatically "on the clock."
So if an officer is legal to carry somewhere (i.e. bar, school, place that has a "No Firearms" sign posted) when they are "on duty" (during their eight hours paid duty), it is legal to carry when they are not "on duty". (not during their eight hours paid duty)
If you read over AG Petro's opinion, the AG clearly states that each officer must carry the same way as a permit holder UNLESS one of the Excptions is met. One of these is the scope of the officers duites, which is determined by Dept. policy, which unless they state otherwise, LEOs are LEOs 24/7 . (very few departments do not let their officers carry off duty, I know of only three for sure in the entire state)
Petro is making an opinion on "the officer" (usually refering to reserve officers) that is not ok to carry off under the color of his dept, this is a remedy opinion for the Avon Lake law director, nothing more. It does not affect the other LEO departments in Ohio whos policy have off duty carry without restriction.
Take care and be safe!
:')
Here in Ohio like most places in the U.S. most LEOs are expected at all times to intervene, if practical and safe, if we observe a felony in progress. That means that we are always acting in our official capacity and in the scope of our duties 24/7. While I'm not being paid while off duty, should something occur that I must step into I am automatically "on the clock."
So if an officer is legal to carry somewhere (i.e. bar, school, place that has a "No Firearms" sign posted) when they are "on duty" (during their eight hours paid duty), it is legal to carry when they are not "on duty". (not during their eight hours paid duty)
If you read over AG Petro's opinion, the AG clearly states that each officer must carry the same way as a permit holder UNLESS one of the Excptions is met. One of these is the scope of the officers duites, which is determined by Dept. policy, which unless they state otherwise, LEOs are LEOs 24/7 . (very few departments do not let their officers carry off duty, I know of only three for sure in the entire state)
Petro is making an opinion on "the officer" (usually refering to reserve officers) that is not ok to carry off under the color of his dept, this is a remedy opinion for the Avon Lake law director, nothing more. It does not affect the other LEO departments in Ohio whos policy have off duty carry without restriction.
Take care and be safe!
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It is against our department's policy to drink while carrying, but many of our undercover officers must drink during they "working" hours (which is allowed by our rules and regs).jburtonpdx wrote:Good point, maybe I read things wrong - good thing I am not a lawyer...Well if they're "on-duty" 24/7 how do they get by with drinking a beer at the game? While carrying?
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Confused....
I hate to put it this way. But opinions are like behinds.......We all have them! With that said.....Petro gave an opinion and did not make it law. So therefore my rear looks like your rear and so we are all in the same boat from where I am standing.
However, in Lucas County if I were any type of Deputy. We are all required to be on call 24/7. So if I was an Aux Deputy how would all this apply to me seeing how an oath would say I was on call 24/7?? Even if I was only an AUX Deputy?
Will
Not being smart rear....Just a Curious one at that....
However, in Lucas County if I were any type of Deputy. We are all required to be on call 24/7. So if I was an Aux Deputy how would all this apply to me seeing how an oath would say I was on call 24/7?? Even if I was only an AUX Deputy?
Will
Not being smart rear....Just a Curious one at that....
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Re: Confused....
It is part of the Attorney General's job to issue opinion on matters of law, so his opinion may carry a bit more weight than yours or mine. Just like some people's butts carry more weight than others...williampelish wrote:opinions are like behinds.......We all have them! With that said.....Petro gave an opinion and did not make it law.
You are correct, however, that his opinion does not have the force of law.
TunnelRat
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
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Re: Confused....
Of course A.G. Petro's opinion affects only a very small % of Departments in this state. Mostly Small Township Chiefs that don't trust their officers which are mostly made up of Reserve officers.williampelish wrote:I hate to put it this way. But opinions are like behinds.......We all have them! With that said.....Petro gave an opinion and did not make it law. So therefore my rear looks like your rear and so we are all in the same boat from where I am standing.
However, in Lucas County if I were any type of Deputy. We are all required to be on call 24/7. So if I was an Aux Deputy how would all this apply to me seeing how an oath would say I was on call 24/7?? Even if I was only an AUX Deputy?
Will
Not being smart rear....Just a Curious one at that....
I'm not aware of the rules and regs of the Lucas County Sheriff's Office in regards to Aux Duputies or how they define "on call", but I know the Franklin County Sheriff's Aux Duputies have the same powers (24/7) and rights as a full time Deputy. There are some rules and regs that affect what they are allowed and not alowed to do in regards to work assignments. But the rules do not take away the fact they still a sworn Deputy Sheriff (24/7), can still make arrests off the clock, can carry off duty, etc...