POST OFFICES?

[Brian_Horton]

So now that you all know that I was homeschooled in high school watch what you say! Do not make me pull out the big bad editing stick! All your post are belong to us!

just kidding.

[NavyChief]

Think about it. This thread is about the Post Office. It gets lost just like our mail.

Touché.

Sorry about that post. I was acting like a butt.

Too many Busch lights last night.

Again...sorry.

Stuff happens. De nada.

[CurtInOhio]

Do not make my pull out the big bad editing stick!

Looks like you need to pull out that editing stick!!! I hope that's not a typical homeschooling example...

Sorry, couldn't resist...

[Brian_Horton]

Doh!

[SMMAssociates]

Brian:

Dunno.... Look at the people you hang around with....

The real issue is that some people just aren't qualified to home school, and some kids probably would be better off in a school system....

My dad probably would have shot me.... (He was a Dentist, educated back in the days when a Dentist was an MD specializing in the head, and without all that internship/residency stuff. He may not have been the brightest penny in his particular roll, but he was a lot smarter than I ever gave him credit for being when I was "in school". Patience with his family - his patients loved him - was not his strong suite.)

Mom wouldn't have made it in academia as a student, and probably was (is) a little too frazzled for teaching, too, but I think she would have qualified to teach in the schools I attended.

Give 'em 50%....

My wife's parents are another story - her mom could cook and clean, and all that good mom stuff, but didn't even drive until about the time her youngest needed a driver after school. Dad was a good salesman, but influenced more by his sales brochures than reality. IOW, give 'em zero....

That's just two families.

Over and above that, you need dedication on the part of the parents. Both of them.... It really becomes a full-time job for at least one parent, although they may share the post. Not everybody can do that either....

My real problem with home schooling (particularly where there's a decent public or even parochial school system available) is that the kids may not necessarily socialize with their peers. (This appears to be less of an issue - "play groups" for other home-schooled kids.) Also, I'm concerned that in an attempt to protect the kids from "bad ideas", the kids are also being denied knowledge of alternative thinking, alternative ideas, etc.

Finally, there's consistency.... Locally, we have a Jewish day school that's top notch. Better than home schooling, IMHO, if expensive. But, at about age 13, the school ends, and the kids are either forced to find other private education (the best are somewhat heavily Christian-oriented), or are dumped into the public school system.

IMHO, not the best time for a kid to be "moved" like that....

Way the heck off topic, but I remind everybody that I started my online life on a CompuServe forum where staying on-topic was a good way to get tossed off the forum....

Regards,

[toddhill]

I will not comment further, I wish your children well.

I lied...

The real issue is that some people just aren't qualified to home school, and some kids probably would be better off in a school system....

Who decides that and what criteria do you use? I hope you don't intend to compare my children to government schooled children. Or did you plan on comparing us as homeschooling parents to another set of parents? Better yet, how about we let the State decide

Over and above that, you need dedication on the part of the parents. Both of them.... It really becomes a full-time job for at least one parent, although they may share the post. Not everybody can do that either....

I beg to differ, it's called sacrifice. If you truly believe that what your are doing, you will do whatever it takes to accomplish your goal.

[Brian_Horton]

I don't like to see people that don't home school attack home schooling as being bad for the child and saying things like how stupid and socially inept the child will be. I also don't like to see people that home school attack non home schooling parents by saying that they don't love their kids enough or are selfish and not willing to make sacrifices. The thing that makes this country great is that each married couple can decide what kind of values will be taught and education their children will have in their family and the state can't foce you to do one thing or another.

Homeschooling has positives and negatives when compared to public or private schools and that it is not for everyone. It worked for me and I would like to home school my kids one day, but that is a joint decision that I will have to make with the future wife. I would never look down on another parent for placing there children in public or private school systems. There are many situations in life where homeschooling may not be the best option for the child or the family.

I've said my piece and I think everyone else has too. We're way OT with this discussion so why don't we go back to the post office question?

[NavyChief]

...why don't we go back to the post office question?

Somebody goin' to the post office? Could ya' take this package for me...

[Brian_Horton]

Actually I need to stop by a UPS store sometime today.

[Petrovich]

Ya wanna home school yer kids???.......get a teaching certificate....until you do... you are an AMATEUR at best.....and yer kids are getting a second rate education.

Those are strong words. My wife has a degree in nursing and ophthalmologic technology. I am finishing my master’s degree in medical physics. Please don't insult our intelligence and ability to teach our children.

My undergraduate degree is in secondary education (physics and chemistry) and I have taught college level radiation physics. I will tell you that it does not take intelligence to be come a teacher in today's society. I hope I don't offend anyone, but most teachers are nothing but classroom managers and utensils for feeding useless information to our children. Education is not about spitting back basic facts that are required by the government. This is what education has become and it has failed.

It's a shame that this group can be so together on one subject, yet be so offending on another.

I will not comment further, I wish your children well.

Once again, I apologize for my drunken rampage against home schooling. It definately isn't for me, but I realize some people can probably make it work.

I have also seen some people who attempted to home school their children and they were barely qualified housebreak a puppy, let alone prepare their children for earning a living. I met this family while doing private duty for one of their children. This butt was so ignorant he couldn't even speak with proper grammar. How was he planning to teach English?? Both parents were fundamentalist religious psychos, and it was obvious they were simply padding their own egos and making a statement about how bad the public school system is.

I happen to agree that the public school system leaves much to be desired, but it has turned out some pretty remarkable minds.

I have strong feelings about the issue because my daughter wants to be home schooled and I am adamant about not doing it. She even says I don't have to do anything but purchase a curriculum and she'll do the work via computer.

That is about the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard.

[toddhill]

Hey petro, nice avatar. Do I sense a "whose got the best" competition coming up?

I have strong feelings about the issue because my daughter wants to be home schooled and I am adamant about not doing it. She even says I don't have to do anything but purchase a curriculum and she'll do the work via computer.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) she's right. In fact, I work with a Doc who actually started a Charter School (NO I AM NOT GOING THERE! so don't ask ) following that exact type of curriculum.

That is about the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard.

Not necessarily... You may be surprised at what our young ones can do if we let them. Anyway, I agree with you that there are plenty of homeschoolers who should not be.

By the way, I went to the Wood County Fair last night with some friends of ours and the kids. He is an NRA instructor, has his carry permit, and a homeschooler.

He is also a public school teacher

[Petrovich]

Hey petro, nice avatar. Do I sense a "whose got the best" competition coming up?

I have strong feelings about the issue because my daughter wants to be home schooled and I am adamant about not doing it. She even says I don't have to do anything but purchase a curriculum and she'll do the work via computer.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) she's right. In fact, I work with a Doc who actually started a Charter School (NO I AM NOT GOING THERE! so don't ask ) following that exact type of curriculum.

That is about the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard.

Not necessarily... You may be surprised at what our young ones can do if we let them. Anyway, I agree with you that there are plenty of homeschoolers who should not be.

By the way, I went to the Wood County Fair last night with some friends of ours and the kids. He is an NRA instructor, has his carry permit, and a homeschooler.

He is also a public school teacher

I guess my thinking is that school is much more than the aquisition of knowledge.

Heck, I've been sitting in front of a computer since 1995 and I have learned a lot from it; but I can't see it replacing school.

Much of what we learn in school comes from interaction with others in an atmosphere of academics. We have discussions, and projects, and forums. Students strong in one area help other students weak in that area....so on and so forth.

Heck, getting up in the morning, putting your clothes on and getting out the door is a learning experience in itself. I think attending school provides the groundwork for many things in adult life that home schooling cannot.

Anyway.......my daughter is getting her BUTT outta the rack and she's going to school....or else.

[SMMAssociates]

Jeff:

The interesting thing about home schooling is that it was fairly common at one time, but IMHO about the first thing that happened in any given area was that when the population reached the point where there were more than a very few kids who needed any education, somebody either got volunteered, or a "schoolmarm" was hired.

It is fairly easy to set up - the computer based stuff is right there, and if the kid can handle it, fine, but the parents still have to be involved to a much greater degree than just attending PTA and "parent's night".

(I went to "parent's night" once, way, way back, when the kid was in First Grade. One of the parents was a sort of local celebrity, and he and his daughter's issues, monopolized the meeting. Downer.... I still made most of them until the kid got into Middle School. She didn't care, and I had trouble finding a parking space . Lest this sound silly, my health was pretty bad in those days, and the wife would go as often as she could. Becka didn't lose out.... Currently she's in college, out of town. I have no idea where the campus is! No need - she's more than capable of handling that herself, and has told me so. Decent grades, too, but I need to find out what a "Z" means....)

(Becka had a problem with Geography years ago. She got an "L" for "Lost"....)

(The wife can't read a road map. That's another story....)

While there are sacrifice issues too, it's important to note that some people just can't do it, regardless of the reason. My wife, as I mentioned before, can't really do basic math, and barely got out of High School. I probably could handle anything the State would toss at me, but my wife's income is pretty trivial. Dunno if I could take the time.

(I used to help Becka with her homework, and taught her how to use a computer to write papers, and do research. I also often edited & spell checked her stuff. Some of that "new math" threw me a bit, but not a lot - it was obviously set in there by people who had an axe to grind rather than those who cared about education. IOW, some yutz decides that kids need to study "averaging with curve smoothing" or some such, and there's a page in the textbook with a dozen problems and no explanation! I complained to the teacher, who agreed with me.... Same for about five other techniques. Use this stuff someday? Sure.... But that was the worst of it if you don't count an OH history book that the State demanded. Printed on Kraft paper and full of innacuracies and omissions. Whee....)

Short of it is that some parents don't want their kids in the public system, and are qualified. Fine.... Some aren't. They need to look at other options, of which home schooling is just one. There are enough good schools, be they private, parochial, or public, around, but sometimes you have to pay or move. Downside is that there are also people who need this but can't afford anything but home schooling.

We also need to think about pooling resources. I think it's possible to home school a group of kids as a group. That may be helpful.

Finally, we do need to clean up our schools. Unfortunately, the forces of Political Correctness don't want to hear that.... Why "charter schools" and home schooling made it across in the first place, I think, is that they don't want their kids talking to ours....

Regards,

[Petrovich]

Hi Stu,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

It is a dilemma, isn't it? On the one hand, public schools with their problems; but then the logistical problems of home schooling, and the expense of private schools (I hate to pay twice).

My daughter gets absolutely straight A's in public school. She also plays in the school orchestra, and auditioned and was accepted into the Newark/Granville youth symphony orchestra. She's quite an achiever, and a very hard worker.

I have little doubt that public school fails to challenge her to her full potential. Perhaps a private school, or even home schooling would. Heckuvitis....I'm just not prepared to venture into territory I know so little about. It seems to me that our present course is the most sure fire (if it works don't fix it).

If her grades remain the same who knows what opportunities will come her way? At least in a public school she's 'in the loop' so to speak. There won't be any trouble verifying her qualifications to any institute of higher learning. With home schooling I'm not so sure her 'credentials' would be as valid? Heck, with her grades, and her music; I wouldn't be surprised at an all expense paid trip to college.

Yes, I have issues with public schools; however those issues are pretty much a reflection of life in general. I think it's better to develop a sense of the world in the relatively sheltered environment of public school rather than be schooled at home, then suddenly thrust into the world.

[SMMAssociates]

It is a dilemma, isn't it? On the one hand, public schools with their problems; but then the logistical problems of home schooling, and the expense of private schools (I hate to pay twice).

Jeff:

I could never understand why the parents of kids who are in "other" systems would pay double when there's a half-decent public system handy. Boardman, Canfield, Poland, Liberty (Trumbull County), around here, are all at least reasonable, if not downright great. They all have problems - drugs, etc., but I have the feeling that the alternative schools in these areas have the same problems, but we just don't hear about them.

(They do have the luxury of ejecting kids who create problems. The public schools can't always do that.)

My daughter gets absolutely straight A's in public school. She also plays in the school orchestra, and auditioned and was accepted into the Newark/Granville youth symphony orchestra. She's quite an achiever, and a very hard worker.

That's great! My daughter never managed straight A's, but she's a bigger goof off than I was. (Which is interesting because her grades were generally better than mine were too!)

I have little doubt that public school fails to challenge her to her full potential. Perhaps a private school, or even home schooling would. Heckuvitis....I'm just not prepared to venture into territory I know so little about. It seems to me that our present course is the most sure fire (if it works don't fix it).

IMHO, private school, if you've got the money, might be better for her. I think the really exceptional kids aren't going to benefit from home schooling unless the parents are equipped to challenge them, and that's not always possible. It's one thing to run 'em through the State's curriculum, and another to run up to their potential. I'm not convinced that the Public Schools can do that either. Too much pressure to pass the tests and avoid self-esteem issues for the kids who can't read at 19....

The Parochial Schools may be your best choice if you want to change. May.... I don't think they'd avoid trying.

I probably could challenge my daughter, but my education is extremely eclectic, and she switches off when she asks me for the time and I tell her how to make a watch. That may be her problem in general.

If her grades remain the same who knows what opportunities will come her way? At least in a public school she's 'in the loop' so to speak. There won't be any trouble verifying her qualifications to any institute of higher learning. With home schooling I'm not so sure her 'credentials' would be as valid? Heck, with her grades, and her music; I wouldn't be surprised at an all expense paid trip to college.

Can't agree more.... If I was a college admissions desk guy, I think I'd be a little more careful with the home schooled kids. Good thing for the SATs and ACT.... I don't trust them either, but.... The scholarship would be great, too. Becka's grades just weren't good enough. (They are good now - she's going to apply for something or other shortly. Film at 11....)

Yes, I have issues with public schools; however those issues are pretty much a reflection of life in general. I think it's better to develop a sense of the world in the relatively sheltered environment of public school rather than be schooled at home, then suddenly thrust into the world.

There are some public schools in OH (and other states) where arming the students would be a good idea if not so damn un-PC, and others that can really provide an education. IMHO, it's parental involvement, or lack of it, that sets the tone. If little Johnny is just there because the State will throw him and his parents (if they can be found) into the greybar if he's not, that needs to change.

IAC, getting dumped into the real world is enough of a shock from Public Schools.... College is a whole 'nother world, too, but if you're not there to study, you probably shouldn't be there, and there are some incentives to clear out the problem people.

Funding is part of the problem. Suburban folks don't want to pay for inner city schools....

What a mess....

Regards,