Question about law enforcement officers

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PowerMac
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Question about law enforcement officers

Post by PowerMac »

I don't know what the rule about dealing with police officers is, but do you favor people telling the officers they're armed, or do you favor them not divulging that fact until asked by the officer?
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SMMAssociates
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Re: Question about law enforcement officers

Post by SMMAssociates »

PowerMac wrote:I don't know what the rule about dealing with police officers is, but do you favor people telling the officers they're armed, or do you favor them not divulging that fact until asked by the officer?
Hoohah....

For a quick answer, don't tell 'em. You'll love the response.... :twisted:

Seriously (I couldn't resist), the law requires that you notify a LEO if you are stopped or otherwise encounter an LEO in something resembling an official capacity.

There is some discussion about whether or not you need to do so if you happen to find one in the donut shop, even if he sits down beside you, or otherwise see or speak to one casually. The law's a bit unclear, but "hey, look what I got" probably isn't necessary. I wouldn't bother. Likewise, if an LEO walks up to you as you're sitting on your front porch (or on your car at a "tailgate") and asks if "you've seen a brown Chevy", there's no need.

IANAL and all that. It would seem to me that any contact in which you'd be likely to be searched and/or arrested would require notification. I'd call any and all traffic stops as fitting the requirement.

You should also (IMHO) notify when stopped (etc.) and you're not carrying, even though it's not required. I feel that the Officer finding out about your CHL "later" may evoke a less pleasant response.

(I'm an old rent-a-cop. Assuming that a stop is armed is a good way to stay alive. A CHL holder who tells an Officer that he's carrying, or not, makes for a better feeling. Not 100%, mind you, but it beats getting the barrel of whatever the Officer is carrying screwed into your ear. 'Course, I don't give tickets. I get 'em....)

I hate to say it, but read the manual.... The A/G's booklet is full of errors, but is about as good as we have.

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Willy P
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Post by Willy P »

Personally for me, I am of the mind that I will notify the officer. I travel around several states and it is much easier for me to just go with the most stringent requirement ( Ohio's tell and make it quick Law ) as opposed to carring a card of the different States laws. Truethfully I know several LEO's and for me it is just a respect thing I feel compelled to do. I know several on the mailing list disagree with this but Hey decisions are sometimes personal ones. I agree we all have a right to disagree and that we better all hang together on the major points.
mickiratt
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Post by mickiratt »

A buddy of mine was pulled over in Cleveland last weekend for speeding and he was not carrying. He did not notify the LEO that he was a CCW license holder, however he did overhear the LEO's radio when dispatch advised the officer that my buddy was indeed a license holder. According to my friend, the LEO was a little upset that he wasn't notified of the license and kind of warned him that it is mandatory in the event that it happens again.

Apparently, your CCW status is attached to your driver's license or social security number. I am glad that my buddy shared this with me because I was under the impression that you only had to notify if you are carrying. I guess when they run your license, they don't want any surprises. Some states don't even bother with requiring notification because they can find out easily. Anyone else have better clarification on notifying LEO's when not carrying?
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Post by collin »

If you are stopped by the officer, you must notify.
SMMAssociates
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Post by SMMAssociates »

mickiratt wrote:A buddy of mine was pulled over in Cleveland last weekend for speeding and he was not carrying. He did not notify the LEO that he was a CCW license holder, however he did overhear the LEO's radio when dispatch advised the officer that my buddy was indeed a license holder.

Warned you.... (See my earlier post in this thread.)
According to my friend, the LEO was a little upset that he wasn't notified of the license and kind of warned him that it is mandatory in the event that it happens again.
WRONG.... Mandatory only if you're carrying. Smart, IMHO even if you're not carrying. (I think - Collin?)
Apparently, your CCW status is attached to your driver's license or social security number. I am glad that my buddy shared this with me because I was under the impression that you only had to notify if you are carrying. I guess when they run your license, they don't want any surprises. Some states don't even bother with requiring notification because they can find out easily. Anyone else have better clarification on notifying LEO's when not carrying?
CHL status is tied to your SSN, which is linked to from your vehicle's registration (plates).

The major reason to notify when you're carrying (ignoring the BS issues) is because not all Officers have MDT's, and/or their Dispatchers may not be able to (temporarily or permanently, depending on the agency) access the OH LEADS system to find out. They want to avoid any surprises.

One problem with notification when you're not carrying is that it invites a search to see where the weapon isn't :) , and where it is....

The "notify quickly" thing is idiocy when the Officer has an MDT or the Dispatcher can advise. It's smart, I think, to notify as quickly as is convenient, but as written it gives the Officer a little too much of an excuse to be nasty about it.

Also, in some areas, the MDT's were popping up "death and destruction" warnings when a stop had a CHL - not confidence-inspiring. Here, the MDT's were doing OK, but the Dispatcher was getting "Run Away!", and passing that to the cars in ways that would result in hot backup runs, that weren't always cancelled. Not good....

(Most of the dispatcher and MDT issues have apparently been solved. I've not heard it lately. I listen a lot.... IANAL....)

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Your CHL status is linked to your State ID or License

Post by jgarvas »

I concur with the statements that you must notify *if* you are carrying, but I would notify regardless. The fact is I'd rather have a police officer learn something about me from my word of mouth other than his MDT or his dispatcher. It shapes the officer's opinion of your forthcoming nature when his MDT or dispatch verify things you've told him. One day I may change my mind on this if I am approached by an officer that is so abrupt and rude that I can't get the statement out before he bites my head off and I don't have it with me.
SMMAssociates wrote: CHL status is tied to your SSN, which is linked to from your vehicle's registration (plates).
This is one of the most misunderstood areas of Ohio's law. I think you were saying the right thing, but the status of your license isn't really "tied to your SSN" (remember, the AG ruled that SSNs are optional on the application due to existing federal law). Also, some people (myself included) have removed our SSN from the face of our driver's license.

Your CHL status is put into LEADS and associated with your Driver's license. I would venture to guess that if you don't have a driver's license it is most likely associated with your state ID card, which is a required document in Ohio if you don't have a driver's license.

It most cities when a cop pulls you over they "run" the license plates and get back a "registered owner", whose operator's license is subsequently
"run" through LEADS. If your car registration is in the name of your wife, you're driving, and she doesn't have a license, they won't know about it until they run your driver's license or you tell them you have a CHL.
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Post by SMMAssociates »

This is one of the most misunderstood areas of Ohio's law. I think you were saying the right thing, but the status of your license isn't really "tied to your SSN" (remember, the AG ruled that SSNs are optional on the application due to existing federal law). Also, some people (myself included) have removed our SSN from the face of our driver's license.
Jeff:

Thanks - I definitely got that wrong....
Your CHL status is put into LEADS and associated with your Driver's license. I would venture to guess that if you don't have a driver's license it is most likely associated with your state ID card, which is a required document in Ohio if you don't have a driver's license.
That would work about as well as an SSN, and be "legal" within the "SSN as ID" rules that now exist.
It most cities when a cop pulls you over they "run" the license plates and get back a "registered owner", whose operator's license is subsequently "run" through LEADS. If your car registration is in the name of your wife, you're driving, and she doesn't have a license, they won't know about it until they run your driver's license or you tell them you have a CHL.
It is possible to backtrack by name and find out who the spouse is, etc., via LEADS, if the information is right. IOW, if your name is Smith and your spouse is Jones, then it would either be necessary to know that, or to have the spouse's name pop up in a LEADS inquiry. I don't think the latter is possible at this time.

Some people have suggested registering your vehicles to a dummy corporation to avoid this issue. It might be good where your spouse and/or children don't have a CHL but do drive cars you own. Avoids high "pucker-factor" stops.... After more than a year with few reported problems, though, this may not be a problem unless you're afraid OSP will be haunting the Turnpike Service Plazas to see who walks in carrying what. :evil:

Finally, I did advise to notify anyway.... Cops don't like surprises, and you might beat a concealment "issue" if you forgot to uncover. In-car video may cover your butt if you try to notify, too....

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Conk
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Post by Conk »

Great thread, great information. Its so nice to have a "local" board!!

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Post by jeepzilla »

Big item here for folks to get past is that there is heavy responsibility to having a CHL. That means we are to be totally trusted, not paranoid, always co-operative, never antagonistic, law abiding citizens. Means we are not speeders, don't run lights, help old ladies across the street and otherwise behave!!

Tempting to dissect the law and argue about nuances, but the fact remains that law enforcement was led to the table unwillingly. It is up to all of us to keep ourselves lilly white so that law enforcement can relax about the CHL holder. And don't gimme BS about your rights. The CHL is a privelege right now in the eyes of law enforcement and we had better not blow the chance. You may find yourself paying a lawyer thousands to argue those nuances for you in court. The judges don't even know how to handle this law because there is precious little precedent.
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Remember the situation when officially encountering a LEO

Post by Roller »

Much of the time that you "officially" encounter a LEO with be with a traffic stop. This is tied for first place in danger to the officer and he / she should be approcahing the stop accordingly. ( the other first place danger is domestic violence calls). Give the officer a break and let them know that you are a legal, law abiding citizen, that means them no harm. My policy, whether required by law or not, is to tell them. "Officer, I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun and I am armed. How do you want me to proceed?" This will go a long way easing the tension of the moment.

My only encounter with a LEO while armed was at a small fire at a motel. A bush near me burst into flames ( smoldering mulch and no, there were no voices from the burning bush). While the owner and myself put out the fire, the fire department was called. Police got there first and asked me what happened - official contact. I told him I was armed and licensed to carry. He looked at my license and said "OK". We had a nice chat after that.

Roller.
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Post by Glock Rock »

Conk wrote:Great thread, great information. Its so nice to have a "local" board!!

Indeed
! You know how difficult this conversation was under the email list? :shock:
PowerMac
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Post by PowerMac »

Glock Rock wrote:
Conk wrote:Great thread, great information. Its so nice to have a "local" board!!

Indeed
! You know how difficult this conversation was under the email list? :shock:
That's why I never joined.
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officer contact

Post by CMiddleton »

If I were an officer I would want to know if there was a potential threat. I would instantly make a judgement call that the person I pulled over was forthright and honest when they volunteered information that they were a permit holder. Cops typically dont like to give upstanding people citations, I have heard several stories lately of people being let go, and receiving no tickets once the officer has a comfort level with you. That comfort seems to come from courtesy and honesty. Most of my friends who are in law enforecment enjoy discussing guns, and we have something in common with officers...we both enjoy guns, and we both are being proactive in preventing crime.
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always inform

Post by Mad Duck »

I recomend to everyone even when not carrying to inform the officer that they have the CHL.
I had one guy called me & told me it got him out of a ticket with the OSP.
Said he even addmitted he was going 10 miles over the speed limit.
Got off with a warning (He was towing a trailer for a friend, & the smokey could not run his plate)
Said the advice saved him the cost of the ticket, & that paid for the class.
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