What constitutes brandishment?

[Petrovich]

My take on brandishment is mostly about intent.

Correct me if I am wrong. Even alluding to the possession of a firearm with the intent to intimidate someone is considered brandishment.

[collin]

That's a darn good question.

[ballistic]

I just spend the last half-hour searching the online ORC for the criminal definition of "brandishing." It appears the ORC doesn't recognize the term "brandishing" or the phrase "brandishing (of) a weapon." I consulted Sect. 2300 of which we are all acutely aware. No specific mention is made to "brandishing" in this section or in the section covering harassment, inducing panic, or other crimes against the public. Which leaves me wondering, if the ORC doesn't define "brandishing", then how can you be charged for doing it (whatever it is)?

[rhwiley]

I'd say alluding to the possession of a firearm with the intent to intimidate someone could be considered more in the lines of being called 'menacing' than 'brandishing'. Also, if I remember what I was told one time is still true... pulling a weapon on someone without justifyable cause is also chargeable as a form of felony assault.

I may be wrong, but that's what I was told a few years ago by a few sheriff's deputies I know, as well as a Columbus Police officer when I was getting a stern lecture from him about how to properly protect yourself 2-blocks away from OSU. I was a freshman at OSU at the time, and I was used to taking care of things being 15 miles out in the country. No charges were pressed, but I was a little un-nerved at the time.

Bob Wiley

[Rick]

I'm not sure what would define "brandishing" either. The Center For Disease Control had established that brandishing a handgun was used over 2 million times yearly to stop or prevent an assualt or attack. I gathered this informormation probably a year or so before HB12 was enacted. I had the information on my computer, then it went to computer heaven, if that's where they go, then I had to replace it and could not remember the proper link. I've not had the time to search the CDC since.
Rick

[BB62]

I'd say alluding to the possession of a firearm with the intent to intimidate someone could be considered more in the lines of being called 'menacing' than 'brandishing'.

IANAL, but I agree. I believe the applicable section in Ohio would refer to menacing if reference was made, or aggravated menacing if display was involved.

How about some words from the OFCC legal beagles?


BB62

[jgarvas]

I'd say alluding to the possession of a firearm with the intent to intimidate someone could be considered more in the lines of being called 'menacing' than 'brandishing'.

IANAL, but I agree. I believe the applicable section in Ohio would refer to menacing if reference was made, or aggravated menacing if display was involved.

How about some words from the OFCC legal beagles?
BB62

There is no such thing as a criminal charge for brandishing in Ohio Revised Code. OFCC's Vice President Bryan Torok (A Police Sgt. with Cleveland PD for quite a long time) has said this quite a few times outside of these forums, and he's right as far as I can tell from searching ORC online.

If you look at the situation down south where a guy cut someone off inadvertently, the person cut off approached his car window at a red traffic light, and then the occupant (a doctor of some sort) drew his firearm to defend himself, the charges in that case tend to answer this question.

The man who approached the vehicle was charged with menacing. The driver who had the gun and drew it was charged with aggravated menacing because he had a firearm. Eventually, all charges were dropped and they went on their ways with a slap on the wrists, or so I believe.

My thought is that these are the charges you'd find yourself facing if you drew a firearm, and quite possibly if your indicated you had one during a fight, or if you reached for one in an aggressive manner.

The reason you won't see any comments from OFCC's lawyers is because we do not provide any legal advice. Someone who really wants to know the details here should contact a competent attorney, because IANAL.

-Jeff

[williampelish]

Hmmm the lawyer won't comment eh? Then what good is my $20.00? If I have to call Collin for all the answers and he is not a lawyer. The OFCC lawyers won't say anything. I am not trying to be funny in any way or means. I just find it odd. As far as brandishing look to your local law enforcement for this answer. ORC will not cover everything.

[Petrovich]

This stuff is good to know.

No wonder I was so vague on 'brandishing' heck, it doesn't exist!

I always did figure you'd get yer butt in a sling if you mentioned, touched or produced a firearm without a VERY GOOD reason.

Contrary to what the gun nazis would have us believe; I think CC will actually make a more polite society. I think more folks will go to a much greater length to be as inoffensive as possible, simply because they know they are armed and at a disadvantage.

Knowing I have a firearm makes me extra conscious of the fact I must avoid any altercation of a verbal nature...even if it means losing face.

So, even when some jerk cuts in front of you at the grocery line......don't say anything. Or the other day when some moron ran a red light to get into McHappy burgerland.....almost hitting my car in the process. I was SOOOOOOOOO tempted to pull in behind him and ask him what he had in his cranium besides pig manure. But I didn't. In years past I wouldn't have hesitated.

[medphys3]

From dictionary.com

bran·dish ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es

1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.

n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

[Petrovich]

From dictionary.com

bran·dish ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es

1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.

n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

How do you 'flourish' a weapon?

Good ol' Webster.....ya gotta love 'im.

[Petrovich]

Main Entry: 1flour·ish
Pronunciation: 'fl&r-ish, 'fl&-rish
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English florisshen, from Middle French floriss-, stem of florir, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin florire, alteration of Latin florEre, from flor-, flos flower
intransitive senses
1 : to grow luxuriantly : THRIVE
2 a : to achieve success : PROSPER b : to be in a state of activity or production <flourished around 1850> c : to reach a height of development or influence
3 : to make bold and sweeping gestures
transitive senses : to wield with dramatic gestures : BRANDISH

Sorry Webster.....I guess yer right after all. It is possible to 'flourish' a weapon.

[TunnelRat]

The Center For Disease Control had established that brandishing a handgun was used over 2 million times yearly to stop or prevent an assualt or attack. I gathered this informormation probably a year or so before HB12 was enacted. I had the information on my computer, then it went to computer heaven, if that's where they go, then I had to replace it and could not remember the proper link. I've not had the time to search the CDC since.Rick

I do not question your veracity. I only regret your computer's early demise and the loss all your research and citations.

I would doubt that the CDC ever made such a statement -- even if they knew it to be true. The CDC is strongly anti-gun and has no hesitation about skewing the evidence (even making up "facts") to prove their point.

However, John R. Lott has indeed used that figure on a number of occasions:

“polls of American citizens undertaken by organizations like the Los Angeles Times and Gallup showing that Americans defend themselves with guns between 764,000 and 3.6 million times each year, with the vast majority of cases simply involving people brandishing a gun to prevent attack.”
Does Allowing Law-Abiding Citizens to Carry Concealed Handguns Save Lives? Valparaiso University Law Review, 31(2): 355-63, Spring, 1997. [The same passage also appears in: John R. Lott Jr “Concealed Handgun Laws Can Save Lives” Agenda 3(4): 499-503, 1996]

“There are surveys that have been done by the Los Angeles Times, Gallup, Roper, Peter Hart, about 15 national survey organizations in total that range from anything from 760,000 times a year to 3.6 million times a year people use guns defensively. About 98 percent of those simply involve people brandishing a gun and not using them.”
Page 41, State of Nebraska, Committee on Judiciary LB465, February 6, 1997, statement of John Lott, Transcript prepared by the Clerk of the Legislature, Transcriber’s Office.

“When victims are attacked, 98 percent of the time merely brandishing a gun is enough to cause the criminal to stop his attack.”
John R. Lott, Jr., Packing protection, Letters, Chicago Sun-Times, April 30, 1997, Pg. 52

“Considerable evidence supports the notion that permitted handguns deter criminals. Polls show that there are at least 760,000 and possibly as many as 3.6 million defensive uses of guns per year. In 98% of the cases, people simply brandish weapons to stop attacks.”
Unraveling Some Brady Law Falsehoods Los Angeles Times July 2, 1997 By John R. Lott Jr.

Other research shows that guns clearly deter criminals. Polls by the Los Angeles Times, Gallup and Peter Hart Research Associates show that there are at least 760,000, and possibly as many as 3.6 million, defensive uses of guns per year. In 98% of the cases, such polls show, people simply brandish the weapon to stop an attack.”
John R. Lott Jr., Childproof Gun Locks: Bound to Misfire, Wall Street Journal, July 19, 1997 Wall St. J. A22

“If national surveys are correct, 98 percent of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack.”
More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press, 1998), p. 3. [Date of publication, May, 1998.]

“People use guns defensively about 2.5 million times each year, and 98% of the time simply brandishing the weapon is enough to stop an attack.”
Will Suing Gun Manufacturers Save Lives? By John R. Lott, Jr. Investor’s Business Daily May 27, 1998

“It has been shown that 98 percent of the time the only thing a person has to do is brandish the gun and the criminal flees.”
Interview with John Lott Jr., The Dallas Morning News May 31, 1998.

“Americans use guns defensively about 2.5 million times a year, and 98% of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”
Keep guns out of lawyers hands, Wall Street Journal, June 23, 1998.

“The media understandably play up graphic gun attacks by outlaws. They can’t easily show us the vastly more common cases numbering in the hundreds of thousands to millions each year where law-abiding citizens brandish a gun and cause criminals to flee (as they do 98 percent of the time).”
How to Stop Mass Shootings, The American Enterprise, July/August 1998.

“Polls by the Los Angeles Times, Gallup and Peter Hart Associates show that there are at least 760,000, and possibly as many as 3.6 million, defensive uses of guns per year. In 98 percent of the cases, such polls show, people simply brandish the weapon to stop an attack.”
Gun-Lock Proposal Bound to Misfire, Chicago Tribune, August 6, 1998.

“Other research shows guns clearly deter criminals. Polls by the Los Angeles Times, Gallup, and Peter Hart Research Associates show there are at least 760,000, and possibly as many as 3.6 million, defensive uses of guns per year. In 98 percent of the cases, such polls show, people simply brandish the weapon to stop an attack.”
John Lott, Commentary: Gun Locks That are Bound to Misfire, August 14, 1998, Washington Times (D.C.) A17.

“People use guns defensively about 2.5 million times a year, and 98 percent of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”
John R. Lott Jr., Letters, American Bar Association Journal, October, 1998

“Also ignored is that 98% of the time when people use a gun defensively, merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack. In less than 1% of the cases is a gun even fired directly at the attacker.”
Gun Control Advocates Purvey Deadly Myths, Wall Street Journal Nov. 11, 1998.

“Ninety-eight percent of the time, when people use guns defensively, simply brandishing a gun is sufficient to go and cause a criminal to run away.”
John Lott on Uncommon Knowledge “Farewell To Arms? Gun Control” Film Date: November 13, 1998

“Americans use guns defensively more than 2 million times a year and 98 percent of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”
Will Suing Gun makers Endanger Lives? Chicago Tribune, Nov. 17, 1998.

“Americans also use guns defensively about 2.5 million times a year, and 98% of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”
Cities Target Gun Makers in Bogus Lawsuits,. Los Angeles Times, Dec. 1, 1998.

“If national surveys are correct, 98% of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack.”
Will More Guns Mean Less Crime? Consumers’ Research Magazine, Dec 1998 v81 #12 p18 [this article consists of excerpts from More Guns, Less Crime].

“Americans use guns defensively more than two million times a year, and 98 per cent of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”
National Review, Dec 21, 1998 p46(1) Gun Shy: Cities turn from regulation to litigation in their campaign against guns. (product liability suits in Chicago and New Orleans) John R. Lott Jr..

“There have been sixteen national surveys, everything from the Los Angeles Times, to Gallup, Gary Kleck from Florida State University, which show that over two million times a year people use guns defensively. The vast majority of times (98%) they merely have to brandish a gun and that is sufficient to cause the criminal to break off the attack.”
Interview with John Lott on NRA live, 25 December 1998.

At 14:30, John states that “98% of the time” defensive use of a gun does not involve discharge: “Simply brandishing a gun is sufficient to cause a criminal to break off an attack.”
Further, at 14:57, he states, “less than 2% of the time is the gun fired, and only in a fraction of that is the gun directed/fired AT the criminal.”
Talk by John Lott in Minnesota on January 27, 1999. Transcribed from an audio tape.

“overwhelming majority of times simply brandishing the gun is sufficient to cause the criminal to break off the attack and run away.”
Joint Crime Prevention Committees of the Senate and House of Representatives of the State of Minnesota, Hearing on Conceal Carry Firearms. Feb 19 1999. Transcribed from a video tape

[Petrovich]

“Also ignored is that 98% of the time when people use a gun defensively, merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack. In less than 1% of the cases is a gun even fired directly at the attacker.”
Gun Control Advocates Purvey Deadly Myths, Wall Street Journal Nov. 11, 1998.

That brings up a question I've had for some time.

LEO's are prohibited from firing 'warning shots' as I understand it. I'm fairly certain that's the policy locally, and I assume there's a good reason for it.

What about CCer's. What is the recommendation from the experts. Does anyone know?

[JJones]

“Also ignored is that 98% of the time when people use a gun defensively, merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack. In less than 1% of the cases is a gun even fired directly at the attacker.”
Gun Control Advocates Purvey Deadly Myths, Wall Street Journal Nov. 11, 1998.

That brings up a question I've had for some time.

LEO's are prohibited from firing 'warning shots' as I understand it. I'm fairly certain that's the policy locally, and I assume there's a good reason for it.

What about CCer's. What is the recommendation from the experts. Does anyone know?

If you truly believe that you should fire a Warning Shot, you either have taken no Gun saftey classes, let alone your CCW course or you did not pay attention.

#1 Discharging a firearm in any confrontation is using Leathal force. If you are safely able to fire a warning shot, then you are not justified. If you are justified then you cannot safly fire a warning shot.

#2 Where is that Warning shot going?