Carrying cocked and locked

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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:36 am

I don't always carry a 1911 style 45 anymore, but when I do it's chamber loaded, cocked and locked. My holster for it doesn't interfere with the thumb safety.

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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby wls » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:41 am

schmieg wrote:
wls wrote:
qmti wrote:
I carry a Springfield EMP 1911 style pistol. It's cocked and locked when carried. To empty, drop the mag and then work the slide. To drop the hammer with a live round beginners should practice this without a live round. Practice, practice, practice.


I don’t know you and not trying to offend you but, dropping a hammer on a live round is not good practice regardless of how much practice you do.......hammers can slip from fingers.

I recently purchased a CZ Shadow 2, really nice pistol. It is advertised as a DA/SA.....but there is no decocker. I did some research to find that in some competitions (USPSA, not sure what division) you start with the pistol in DA position meaning....you have to drop the hammer on the CZ. I was rather surprised by this, but have to assume it’s done in a very controlled environment. Whoever runs the competition obviously knows what they’re doing, and the shooters are likely trained and carefully monitored when decocking. This might be the one acceptable time to drop a hammer on a live round, but I still wouldn’t want to recommend a newer shooter, regardless of how much practice, do this. Just my opinion.

Dumb design.


I just use it as a SA anyhow.....which is what I was looking for.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby TSiWRX » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:42 am

schmieg wrote:
qmti wrote:...To drop the hammer with a live round beginners should practice this without a live round. Practice, practice, practice.

Dropping the hammer on a live round is inherently unsafe. Just a thumb slip and a round goes where you don't want it to and you probably will have broken thumb.


I know this is completely tangential, and I apologize for this. :oops:

Honest question: has anyone ever witnessed or even come across a reliable report of the "broken thumb?"

The reason I ask is because while I've seen plenty of folks getting slide-bite from this mistake, I've yet to see someone come away with even a sprained - much less broken - thumb.

To add to this, I know that using the thumb to force the slide into battery for a contact shot (with the understanding that the shooter will then have to get the gun back into operation with immediate action) is still a valid (if dated) contact-distance/fighting technique, to allow the shooter to get that shot off. Granted, I've never done this with a .50 AE "Deagle," but so far, I've yet to break my thumb with a 9, .40, or .45.....

An honest question - I'm just trying to expand my know-how. :)
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby qmti » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:29 pm

wls wrote:
qmti wrote:
wls wrote:I love my 1911's, but cocked and locked is the only way to carry. Just make sure you have the right holster. I have found that many of them are made so that they will disengage the safety. Before Zlongie stopped making and selling holsters, I had several made especially for my 1911's that met my requirement not to interfere with the safety.

If you are carrying a “true” 1911, not the new small ones, you still have a grip safety and trigger to engage before it will fire. Even if the thumb safety disengages in a holster, you still have a very safe pistol. Now with the new, small one with no grip safety, that presents another issue.....now your trigger is your last safety feature.


I carry a Springfield EMP 1911 style pistol. It's cocked and locked when carried. To empty, drop the mag and then work the slide. To drop the hammer with a live round beginners should practice this without a live round. Practice, practice, practice.


I don’t know you and not trying to offend you but, dropping a hammer on a live round is not good practice regardless of how much practice you do.......hammers can slip from fingers.

I'm not offended. You have a good point.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby Brian D. » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm

If you carry a gun with a safety on the outboard side (the side away from your body), that lever has a bit more chance of getting bumped from 'safe' to 'fire'. Depends partially on how much coverage the holster provides. That doesn't keep me from carrying such a gun though, just something to be aware of.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby schmieg » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:39 pm

TSiWRX wrote:
schmieg wrote:
qmti wrote:...To drop the hammer with a live round beginners should practice this without a live round. Practice, practice, practice.

Dropping the hammer on a live round is inherently unsafe. Just a thumb slip and a round goes where you don't want it to and you probably will have broken thumb.


I know this is completely tangential, and I apologize for this. :oops:

Honest question: has anyone ever witnessed or even come across a reliable report of the "broken thumb?"

The reason I ask is because while I've seen plenty of folks getting slide-bite from this mistake, I've yet to see someone come away with even a sprained - much less broken - thumb.

To add to this, I know that using the thumb to force the slide into battery for a contact shot (with the understanding that the shooter will then have to get the gun back into operation with immediate action) is still a valid (if dated) contact-distance/fighting technique, to allow the shooter to get that shot off. Granted, I've never done this with a .50 AE "Deagle," but so far, I've yet to break my thumb with a 9, .40, or .45.....

An honest question - I'm just trying to expand my know-how. :)

I know a guy who had a severely sprained thumb from having the hammer slipped. Of course, this was in the Army, about the same time I saw a LT clear his 1911 by racking the slide, then dropping the magazine, before firing into the sand barrel. Scared the heck out of everyone.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby TSiWRX » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:15 pm

^ Well, that takes care of it! One is enough! :)

It *can* happen, if it happened just once.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby jeep45238 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:36 pm

TSiWRX wrote:
schmieg wrote:
qmti wrote:...To drop the hammer with a live round beginners should practice this without a live round. Practice, practice, practice.

Dropping the hammer on a live round is inherently unsafe. Just a thumb slip and a round goes where you don't want it to and you probably will have broken thumb.


I know this is completely tangential, and I apologize for this. :oops:

Honest question: has anyone ever witnessed or even come across a reliable report of the "broken thumb?"

The reason I ask is because while I've seen plenty of folks getting slide-bite from this mistake, I've yet to see someone come away with even a sprained - much less broken - thumb.

To add to this, I know that using the thumb to force the slide into battery for a contact shot (with the understanding that the shooter will then have to get the gun back into operation with immediate action) is still a valid (if dated) contact-distance/fighting technique, to allow the shooter to get that shot off. Granted, I've never done this with a .50 AE "Deagle," but so far, I've yet to break my thumb with a 9, .40, or .45.....

An honest question - I'm just trying to expand my know-how. :)


M1 Garand has been known to do this :lol:
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby welshj » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:05 am

https://youtu.be/8-7LrxBY7MU

Now, be aware that this is a/the later style series 80.

This is an age old arguement, hence my video.
It's far from a perfect production, or prolly even method, but i wanted to know.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby TSiWRX » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 am

jeep45238 wrote:M1 Garand has been known to do this :lol:


:lol:

Lemmie just whip out my concealed-carry (that's gonna need a lot of Kydex!) Garand pistol....... 8)
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:20 am

TSiWRX wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:M1 Garand has been known to do this :lol:


:lol:

Lemmie just whip out my concealed-carry (that's gonna need a lot of Kydex!) Garand pistol....... 8)


In fairness, I could see a .380 blowback causing quite a bit of discomfort. Locked-breech designs, not so much.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby TSiWRX » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:29 am

^ That's interesting - I hadn't thought about that, to be honest. Good thought. Thank you.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:34 pm

TSiWRX wrote:^ That's interesting - I hadn't thought about that, to be honest. Good thought. Thank you.


Try it with a 9mm+p+ blowback :)
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby gaptrick » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:49 pm

welshj wrote:https://youtu.be/8-7LrxBY7MU

Now, be aware that this is a/the later style series 80.

This is an age old arguement, hence my video.
It's far from a perfect production, or prolly even method, but i wanted to know.


Nice vid... interesting how the last drop set the hammer.

Would be a good test to do on one that didn't have the pin safety too.
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Re: Carrying cocked and locked

Postby schmieg » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 pm

gaptrick wrote:
welshj wrote:https://youtu.be/8-7LrxBY7MU

Now, be aware that this is a/the later style series 80.

This is an age old arguement, hence my video.
It's far from a perfect production, or prolly even method, but i wanted to know.


Nice vid... interesting how the last drop set the hammer.

Would be a good test to do on one that didn't have the pin safety too.

I have at least two 1911's that predate model 70's (one, my gunsmith said has an original pre A1 slide). I don't think they would have performed quite as well on those tests. On the other hand, I'm not going to allow my guns to be treated that way.
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