Can we have a frank discussion here?

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qmti
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by qmti »

[quote="Chuck"]Does anybody still think we ought to work with Brand X?

We could have had a neutered notification bill much sooner if we had[/quote

If we're taking about BFA, they seems to have a different culture over there. Not sure.
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Chuck
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Chuck »

That is our polite name for them
Ain't activism fun?

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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by qmti »

Question: Does anyone know if the BFA's FASTER program has the support or training contribution from the law enforcement community?
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Javelin Man »

Some instructors who teach law enforcement, air marshalls, etc., also teach the FASTER program. They are obviously in favor of the program and ideal of arming teachers to protect the children.
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by qmti »

Not real good at politics so I have to ask questions from more knowledgeable individuals: Questions;

1. if Brand-X needs law enforcement help for the FASTER program could that be why they are more compromising?
2. could we (OFCC) be causing disgust with our pro-gun representatives by opposing Sub.HB142?
3. could we (OFCC) be alienating our pro-gun representatives for future gun legislation?
4. should we (OFCC) continue our crusade with the senate hearings causing more ill-will with our pro-gun legislators?

Thoughts?
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by JediSkipdogg »

qmti wrote:Not real good at politics so I have to ask questions from more knowledgeable individuals: Questions;

1. if Brand-X needs law enforcement help for the FASTER program could that be why they are more compromising?
2. could we (OFCC) be causing disgust with our pro-gun representatives by opposing Sub.HB142?
3. could we (OFCC) be alienating our pro-gun representatives for future gun legislation?
4. should we (OFCC) continue our crusade with the senate hearings causing more ill-will with our pro-gun legislators?

Thoughts?
1) Possibly. Really hard to say at this point.
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes, because they know we can then hurt them in future elections.
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Mustang380gal »

qmti wrote:Not real good at politics so I have to ask questions from more knowledgeable individuals: Questions;

1. if Brand-X needs law enforcement help for the FASTER program could that be why they are more compromising?
2. could we (OFCC) be causing disgust with our pro-gun representatives by opposing Sub.HB142?
3. could we (OFCC) be alienating our pro-gun representatives for future gun legislation?
4. should we (OFCC) continue our crusade with the senate hearings causing more ill-will with our pro-gun legislators?

Thoughts?
Speaking only as me, and not for any group, I certainly don't want to intentionally tick anyone off, but we need to keep our eyes on the mission, which is to restore gun rights to law abiding people. At least that's how I see it.

Chuck and MrMagoo have laid out an excellent rationale for not supporting this sub bill. If we had just said "Nope, don't like it. It isn't repeal" with no logical reason to oppose it, then I think that would have hurt us. Many may not agree with our concerns, but they don't live in our world, and don't have the same worries.

Notification has caused harm, and has serious potential to harm again. The sub bill, if passed, will still contribute to harming people, and will not really further the mission.

I think this is an important enough issue that we should continue our efforts, just not in a bullish way. I am hopeful that we can do this, and I will work toward getting full repeal.
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
techguy85 wrote:Also, just tried to get into my account to renew and can't seem to make it work. I request a password reset, get the code, reset my password, and then I can't use that new password.
Shoot me a PM with your email address on file, you real name that you registered with, and a possible password and I'll reset it for you.
Similar issue here but not really a biggie. I renewed at patron and it did auto update the banner of PGWP but its a tad odd. I can log in to the main page and it shows my real name as a member yet I have to use pleasantguywhopacks to log into the forums same password. There may even be unintentionally two separate member numbers at play.
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

I'll throw my two cents into this thread.
(1) I suspect the whole online experience is changing. While for a long time Forums were the rally point for gun groups, the scene is changing. Older folk still use them yet younger go the way of Facebook ect. The forum is a tad hard to use on the device of choice now, the smart phone. People will go for what is convenient.

(2) There is competition for dollars and like it or not there are limited dollars in the majority of pockets. Marketing seems to be a dirty world but it is what it is, a necessary evil.

(3) PITP fall off is likely a situation of an aging membership that either has family commitments that will always take preference or simply an aging membership that due to that aging can't attend without some real effort. Sad but it's a reality.

(4) Overall apathy of the gun culture when they see last November as winning the war on gun rights. It doesn't matter if that is actually not true, just a quick read through any comments on a Facebook posted media gun story and you see it. Try telling people their LGS is hurting and sales are in the toilet. They lash out like you're an anti.

No easy answers Chuck. I hate to say it but it parallels point (4). People wrongly believe the war is over. It isn't so much a what are you doing wrong as it is what is generally going on across the gunphilesphere.
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Chuck
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Chuck »

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
techguy85 wrote:Also, just tried to get into my account to renew and can't seem to make it work. I request a password reset, get the code, reset my password, and then I can't use that new password.
Shoot me a PM with your email address on file, you real name that you registered with, and a possible password and I'll reset it for you.
Similar issue here but not really a biggie. I renewed at patron and it did auto update the banner of PGWP but its a tad odd. I can log in to the main page and it shows my real name as a member yet I have to use pleasantguywhopacks to log into the forums same password. There may even be unintentionally two separate member numbers at play.
Not two separate members, but two separate websites, therefore requiring two separate log ins
The forums is ohioccwforums.org and the main site is ohioccw.org

Really GLAD to see you back, man!
We've missed you around here
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
pleasantguywhopacks
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

Chuck wrote:
Not two separate members, but two separate websites, therefore requiring two separate log ins
The forums is ohioccwforums.org and the main site is ohioccw.org

Really GLAD to see you back, man!
We've missed you around here
Thanks!
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Chuck
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Chuck »

Dude, I mean that from the bottom of my heart
You and I have sat together while the committee discussed other things before
You were one of those whose opinion I sought before forming my own
I truly missed you
I hope you'll stick around
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Chuck
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Chuck »

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:I'll throw my two cents into this thread.
(1) I suspect the whole online experience is changing. While for a long time Forums were the rally point for gun groups, the scene is changing. Older folk still use them yet younger go the way of Facebook ect. The forum is a tad hard to use on the device of choice now, the smart phone. People will go for what is convenient.

(2) There is competition for dollars and like it or not there are limited dollars in the majority of pockets. Marketing seems to be a dirty world but it is what it is, a necessary evil.

(3) PITP fall off is likely a situation of an aging membership that either has family commitments that will always take preference or simply an aging membership that due to that aging can't attend without some real effort. Sad but it's a reality.

(4) Overall apathy of the gun culture when they see last November as winning the war on gun rights. It doesn't matter if that is actually not true, just a quick read through any comments on a Facebook posted media gun story and you see it. Try telling people their LGS is hurting and sales are in the toilet. They lash out like you're an anti.

No easy answers Chuck. I hate to say it but it parallels point (4). People wrongly believe the war is over. It isn't so much a what are you doing wrong as it is what is generally going on across the gunphilesphere.
Number one is accurate enough, and so is number two. The difference being that we, OFCC, operate on a shoe string budget, we have no payroll and low overhead. (Except for the lawyers)

PITP is off mostly because I do a lousy job of promoting it, to be honest, and I would lie all the help I can get with making improvements
I think young people like this type of event, where they can meet politicians and advocate directly themselve on pro-gun issues

and lastly, the modern apathy bothers me the most. I do what I do for my grandchildren, wanting to leave tham A better Ohio to live than I have .
If their peers don't care, it's hard to drum up support

In any event, I hope you stick around and at least monitor the forums,
You were always a source of wisdom among the calls for activism that I look up to
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by Six Shooter »

Chuck wrote:PITP is off mostly because I do a lousy job of promoting it
You're being a little hard on yourself.

@pleasantguywhopacks.... made some salient points.


But (in my opinion) the novelty has worn off.

We've won victories.


There is nothing wrong, with further thought.

Achieving realistic goals.... is different.
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Re: Can we have a frank discussion here?

Post by schmieg »

Six Shooter wrote:
Chuck wrote:PITP is off mostly because I do a lousy job of promoting it
You're being a little hard on yourself.

@pleasantguywhopacks.... made some salient points.


But (in my opinion) the novelty has worn off.

We've won victories.


There is nothing wrong, with further thought.

Achieving realistic goals.... is different.
The PITP should almost promote itself, but the information does need to be disseminated as soon as possible after the Fun 'N' Gun so people can plan. Another idea is to prepare a poster that can be downloaded and ask people to post it in various guns shops around the state.

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