Malls, theaters etc.

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Malls, theaters etc.

Postby Grumpyolddog » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:31 pm

I've read everything I could find online and even a few YouTube videos and can't find a definitive answer. Do the signs prohibiting carry in malls,theaters, restaurants etc. carry the weight of law? Can you be prosecuted if discovered or just asked to leave the premises. Thanks for any help.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby pirateguy191 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Yes they do. That was easy. Look up criminal trespass.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:56 pm

What pirateguy191 said. Start with ORC 2923.126 (C) (3) (a) and go from there.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby robbo » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:17 pm

If we dont carry in public places, then we are just fish in a bowl.
#1 places shootings/terrorist acts occur = malls and schools Protect yourself and your family. Whos going to know your carrying?
LEO in my jurisdiction said all they will do is ask that you leave, if you fail to do so, or put up resistance to leave then you will be criminal trespassing.
Im not sure if the wording is incorrect on the webpage, but heres how the LEO explained and it is written in another webpage... and/or being the key words
Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person’s property, land, or premises

True or not, I dont know, I dont advertise Im carrying so noone will ever know.

I am not promoting carrying in places marked as no gun zones.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby sirbutchford » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:57 am

Subscribed to this post.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby schmieg » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:45 pm

robbo wrote:If we dont carry in public places, then we are just fish in a bowl.
#1 places shootings/terrorist acts occur = malls and schools Protect yourself and your family. Whos going to know your carrying?
LEO in my jurisdiction said all they will do is ask that you leave, if you fail to do so, or put up resistance to leave then you will be criminal trespassing.
Im not sure if the wording is incorrect on the webpage, but heres how the LEO explained and it is written in another webpage... and/or being the key words
Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person’s property, land, or premises

True or not, I dont know, I dont advertise Im carrying so noone will ever know.

I am not promoting carrying in places marked as no gun zones.

That may be how some LEO are handling the situation, but it is a violation to knowingly enter while armed property where the owner prohibits firearms. While it may be difficult to prove that you knowingly did so, it is not necessarily impossible. All you need is an anti-minded LEO and/or a vehemently anti-minded, well connected property owner and you will be paying for a criminal defense.

Don't forget that you also have to leave if someone in "apparent" authority at the location asks you to leave whether LEO are there or not.

None of this applies to statutory CPZ's where mere entry can be a felony, whether knowingly or not.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby Jim-in-Toledo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:05 am

2911.21 Criminal trespass.

(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:

(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;

(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard;

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;

(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.

Here are a few things I noted in reading through http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.21

"Recklessly" does not equal "Knowingly".

"reasonably calculated" by whom? Judge? Jury?

Also, "negligently" does not equal "Knowingly".

What is a "conspicuous place", and who will determine it? Judge? Jury?

And then, does "owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either", include the guy mopping the bathroom? Or the bag-boy?
Doesn't look like it has to be a manager or anyone in a supervisory position to me.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby pirateguy191 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:13 am

It's all very vague but as I tell my students, "as long you know the rules, you can play the game". Just be ready for any consequences that may occur.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby glocksmith » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:30 am

FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about :D
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby JU-87 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:01 pm

glocksmith wrote:FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about :D


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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby robbo » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:55 pm

glocksmith wrote:FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about :D


Agreed
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby crunchy_in_milk » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:35 pm

The theater in Adrian Michigan isn't posted so I make the effort to go once in awhile.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby Klassen » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:43 am

I think it's stupid that you're not allowed to carry in malls. That's one place where responsible gun carriers are needed the most.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby bignflnut » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:29 am

Ohio-centric question:

How many prosecutions have there been for this "criminal trespassing"?

Is anyone aware of any, in all the years Ohio has had the CPZ sign?

Seems to me if a CHL holder was asked to leave and refused, to the point of trial and the whole nine yards, this forum would have chronicled each moment. (Perhaps I just missed it.)

That said, if a law either isn't being enforced, or is having no impact on lawbreakers...
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.

Postby Brian D. » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:04 am

There were one or two chronicled here in early years of the forum. They refused to leave or disarm, then argued with the gendarmes when they showed up. I don't like trusting to memory but at least one was convicted of trespass if not worse.
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