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Want to talk about IDPA, IPSC, or other competition events you are involved in
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jualdeaux
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

Post by jualdeaux »

I must say again that it seems I have chosen the right place to go for IDPA. Wth a very few exceptions, and I actually can't think of any at the moment, I either have a choice as to which way I shoot around cover, which way to move around cover, and hell, which hand I want to use to shoot around cover sometimes. Or, they set a second string and make us do it both sides/directions.

A couple months ago one guy who is fairly new to the shooting world started the COF just like the rest of us did but picked up the gun with his left (weak) hand and shot the string, and did quite well. We all stood up and clapped after he was done as we all saw that he did a good job using his off hand. The kicker? He didn't even realize what he did until afterwards. I have even thought of buying a left-handed holster and doing the whole day with my off hand. That would be fun! :lol:

One of the few times I remember them letting us reholster a hot weapon is during the classifier matches. The realize that it goes much quicker if we just load up all the mags and just shoot the number of shots we are supposed to instead of having to get the mags just right. The exception is when we have to do a slide lock reload. Then we have to only have the certain number of rounds in the mag. The other time is for those COFs where we have multiple strings and we have to do a reload with retention one way then do it again the other. We just shoot a the partial mag, reholster and move to the next string. After we finish we have to clear the weapon though.
Harlie
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: SE Ohio/Nobletucky

Must have

Post by Harlie »

Skills are just what you brought forth. Any time a object, that can cause injury is in hand, there are dangers present. But to live and work safe, these skills must be recognized and utilized for survival. Therefore they must be taught and practiced. many skills can be obtained at various events and matches, but not allowing some activities are placing some in a dangerous condition. We live in a 360 world, but shoot on a 180 range and within in that 180 limits shouldn't be imposed totally due a persons fear of what can/may happen alone.
Statement made about seeing so much bad stuff at shoots, can't say the same, since my experiences haven't been anything like that at all. Have only seen 3 ND at shoots and every one was on firing line under RO's supervision, slide forward and hammer down at end of string, every time down range as it should have been. Drawing piece in car, seat belt release, getting on target w/o sweeping body, rarely done, required skill?
Keep a keen mind, eye and edge.
INFIDEL, armed, angry and unapolegetic
Ole man from Thunder Mtn
Politicians & diapers should be changed often, both for the same reason
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Re: Must have

Post by TunnelRat »

Harlie wrote: Drawing piece in car, seat belt release, getting on target w/o sweeping body, rarely done, required skill?
Bingo! Under Ohio's new law there are new requirements. So we need to acquire some new skills.

The first coupla times I tried to comply with the plain sight stuff, shifting my firearm in the car, I caught myself sweeping my knees. Whoops!
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
Gargoyle357
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Erie County
Contact:

Post by Gargoyle357 »

Brian D. wrote: And don't get me started on the idea of "never reholstering a hot gun during a stage, it's too dangerous!" That one may not be for first-timers to competition, but for those who carry a pistol out in the REAL world, it's a needed skill.
Never needed more than it is in Ohio either!

Now, in response to many things I have read here:

I started IDPA this year. Good fun, and good practice. It is NOT training, nor is it meant to be. It is a place you can practice SOME of what you learn elsewhere.

To the best of my knowledge, per the new rules, there is no stipulation banning "most" kydex. You can't use competition holsters, or those with an off-set. Uncle Mikes kydex is one holster that I believe is no longer permitted, but not because it is kydex, but because it breaks one of the rules. If memory serves it extend too far from the body.

IDPA would not need such strict rules except for the gamers out there always cheating for an edge. The rules are created to force these lying cheating show boaters to stay within the intention of IDPA.

While it is true that IDPA only allows you one match as a non-member, it is also true that many matches use a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy. I've only been to a single match that asked for my membership number, and it was a large 10 stage LE style match. Other than for shooting a classifier the other just didn't seem to care.

Cold range, 180 degree, etc. appear to mostly be dictated by the club hosting the match and at that by the club members that don't want it at their club anyway. Watching a new club "consider" hosting practical shooting competitions gave me a look into the internal dispute between the high power rifles guys, shotgunners, and those damned unsafe pistol guys. Face it, at most clubs we are currently out numbered. Hopefully with Ohio having concealed carry this will change, but for now we are a distinct minority.

Also keep in mind that these are national organizations, meaning they have to pass the ignorant expectations of such wonderful states as California. If some states weren't so damned anti-gun do you think IDPA would still have a 10 round limit? Almost makes you wish for Ohio specific rules, which would allow hi-cap mags, hosltering a hot gun, and drawing from behind a steering wheel. You know, the things we are forced to do every single day with an Ohio CHL. but again, it is not meant to be training, just practice for SOME things.

Hmmmm, maybe I should consider de-caf as well? :wink:
jualdeaux
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

Post by jualdeaux »

Gargoyle357 wrote: Cold range, 180 degree, etc. appear to mostly be dictated by the club hosting the match and at that by the club members that don't want it at their club anyway.
Hmmmm, maybe I should consider de-caf as well? :wink:
What exactly are you talking about when you say 180 degree? Are you talking about facing way from the course of fire to start with?
Buckshot
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:52 pm
Location: Lima, Ohio

Post by Buckshot »

Gargoyle357 wrote:
Brian D. wrote: And don't get me started on the idea of "never reholstering a hot gun during a stage, it's too dangerous!" That one may not be for first-timers to competition, but for those who carry a pistol out in the REAL world, it's a needed skill.
Never needed more than it is in Ohio either!

Now, in response to many things I have read here:

I started IDPA this year. Good fun, and good practice. It is NOT training, nor is it meant to be. It is a place you can practice SOME of what you learn elsewhere.

To the best of my knowledge, per the new rules, there is no stipulation banning "most" kydex. You can't use competition holsters, or those with an off-set. Uncle Mikes kydex is one holster that I believe is no longer permitted, but not because it is kydex, but because it breaks one of the rules. If memory serves it extend too far from the body.

IDPA would not need such strict rules except for the gamers out there always cheating for an edge. The rules are created to force these lying cheating show boaters to stay within the intention of IDPA.

While it is true that IDPA only allows you one match as a non-member, it is also true that many matches use a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy. I've only been to a single match that asked for my membership number, and it was a large 10 stage LE style match. Other than for shooting a classifier the other just didn't seem to care.

Cold range, 180 degree, etc. appear to mostly be dictated by the club hosting the match and at that by the club members that don't want it at their club anyway. Watching a new club "consider" hosting practical shooting competitions gave me a look into the internal dispute between the high power rifles guys, shotgunners, and those damned unsafe pistol guys. Face it, at most clubs we are currently out numbered. Hopefully with Ohio having concealed carry this will change, but for now we are a distinct minority.

Also keep in mind that these are national organizations, meaning they have to pass the ignorant expectations of such wonderful states as California. If some states weren't so damned anti-gun do you think IDPA would still have a 10 round limit? Almost makes you wish for Ohio specific rules, which would allow hi-cap mags, hosltering a hot gun, and drawing from behind a steering wheel. You know, the things we are forced to do every single day with an Ohio CHL. but again, it is not meant to be training, just practice for SOME things.

Hmmmm, maybe I should consider de-caf as well? :wink:
Gargoyle 357,

To my knowledge I am not and never have been a gamer.

I have shot CAS and had no trouble with the rules, don't use mouse fart loads and love "the spirit of the game".

The guys that were trying to get me into IDPA are the ones that told me that IDPA just outlawed my Unkle Mike's Kydex Paddle holster and that I could not shoot IDPA using it. I told them it was the holster I carried every day and if IDPA didn't allow my normal carry mode, then I was not interested in IDPA.

These guys were running IDPA matches at our club until they quit being the pistol director and assistant pistol director. They claimed that they had to report all shooters and their membership numbers or lack of sameto the IDPA and that turning in non-member shooters more than once per year would lead to them and the club loosing the sanction to run the matches. These are good guys, so I tend to trust them (at least as far as them understanding things that way, whether or not IDPA acts that way) when they tell me something like that.

At our club it is the "shotgunners" and everyone else. Rifle and pistol seem to overlap to a large degree, the shotgunners are the ones that shoot their sport and nothing else and "make all the money for the club and want to keep it for their own use".

Action pistol matches our club runs now are limited to 6 round strings, known as revolver neutral.

Buckshot
Gargoyle357
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Erie County
Contact:

Post by Gargoyle357 »

jualdeaux wrote:
Gargoyle357 wrote: Cold range, 180 degree, etc. appear to mostly be dictated by the club hosting the match and at that by the club members that don't want it at their club anyway.
Hmmmm, maybe I should consider de-caf as well? :wink:
What exactly are you talking about when you say 180 degree? Are you talking about facing way from the course of fire to start with?
No, the 180 degree rule adopted by many matches prohibits you from turning more than 90 degress, either direction, from down range. Hence 180 degree.

Penalty is DQ.

Result is safer, but also causes some very limiting and unrealistic courses of fire.
Gargoyle357
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Erie County
Contact:

Post by Gargoyle357 »

Buckshot, sorry if it sounded I was accusing you of being a "gamer". That was in no way my intention. You just happen to get screwed by the system in that you find yourself capable of concealing a holster which the majority do not. It happens to be an inexpensive holster which all of the "gamers" were going out and buying JUST for an edge in IDPA. I think they shot themselves in the foot banning Uncle Mikes kydex in that many beginners can afford it as a beginning holster and now they can't use it in IDPA. Most I think will do as you have and blow off IDPA all together.

"Most" keydex was not banned though. You just happen to be unlucky enough to have the one that was. It also happens to be the most affordable and readily available, which just makes it more ignorant to ban.

As far as the IDPA requiring member numbers, I only go by my experiences. The vast majority of matches I have attended did not require my IDPA number or any proof of membership. Maybe the IDPA has lossened their reigns a bit since your friends experience with them? Or maybe some of the clubs just blow off the request and challenge the IDPA to turn down their money? Can't say, just relaying my experience there.
jualdeaux
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

Post by jualdeaux »

Gargoyle357 wrote:
jualdeaux wrote:
Gargoyle357 wrote: Cold range, 180 degree, etc. appear to mostly be dictated by the club hosting the match and at that by the club members that don't want it at their club anyway.
Hmmmm, maybe I should consider de-caf as well? :wink:
What exactly are you talking about when you say 180 degree? Are you talking about facing way from the course of fire to start with?
No, the 180 degree rule adopted by many matches prohibits you from turning more than 90 degress, either direction, from down range. Hence 180 degree.

Penalty is DQ.

Result is safer, but also causes some very limiting and unrealistic courses of fire.
That is strange. Every IDPA match I have been to, I just started in spring, has at least one stage whre I face away from the COF to begin with. And eventhe Classifier has me facing away at least once.

As a safety precaution we have the person decide which way they are going to turn and have everyone else move to the other side.
Gargoyle357
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Erie County
Contact:

Post by Gargoyle357 »

jualdeaux wrote:
Gargoyle357 wrote:
jualdeaux wrote: What exactly are you talking about when you say 180 degree? Are you talking about facing way from the course of fire to start with?
No, the 180 degree rule adopted by many matches prohibits you from turning more than 90 degress, either direction, from down range. Hence 180 degree.

Penalty is DQ.

Result is safer, but also causes some very limiting and unrealistic courses of fire.
That is strange. Every IDPA match I have been to, I just started in spring, has at least one stage whre I face away from the COF to begin with. And eventhe Classifier has me facing away at least once.

As a safety precaution we have the person decide which way they are going to turn and have everyone else move to the other side.
But your gun is holstered.

The rule only applies to when your gun is in your hand. You are instructed not to draw until you are pointing down range, even though you start facing up range. It is not an IDPA rule, it is a range rule used by many ranges that host matches. Really not an issue in and of itself.
Gargoyle357
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Erie County
Contact:

You may be right......

Post by Gargoyle357 »

Following a discussion on another forum concerning IDPA rules I am beginning to agree with you guys. They have some stupid rules and it seems they make them more to seperate themselves from IPSC than to accomplish anything else. :roll:
Harlie
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: SE Ohio/Nobletucky

Rules

Post by Harlie »

Are required to seperate some who chose to do other than the intended purpose of IDPA vs USPSA. I shoot both and do so for the opportunity to get more rounds down range and to sharpen skills. There are those for whom, only winning counts and will at every chance find an advantage that will give them an edge. While not bad for the street, to take every advantage available, it sure has a way of making a good clean sport less of an opportunity for learning defensive skills. Dumb stuff like standing in doorways, in front of windows with an empty handgun, with unaddressed targets. Most people carrying a handgun don't have 5/6/7 mag's on person. So leaving a mag' w/ammo behind isn't good. Rules were developed to cause some to recognize some required skills vs strictly run and gun. Frankly too much is made of the rules at times and usually by some one wanting to game for advantage. Uncle Mike modified the IDPA approved design for offset. You can stick a double stack mag between belt and holster loop, and not many are using this for street carry, no matter what they claim. PS I have an earlier UM and it still works for IDPA, if I chose to use it (no offset). We carry cheese to go with the w(h)iners.
Keep a keen mind, eye and edge.
INFIDEL, armed, angry and unapolegetic
Ole man from Thunder Mtn
Politicians & diapers should be changed often, both for the same reason
jualdeaux
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

Post by jualdeaux »

Gargoyle357 wrote:
jualdeaux wrote:
Gargoyle357 wrote: No, the 180 degree rule adopted by many matches prohibits you from turning more than 90 degress, either direction, from down range. Hence 180 degree.

Penalty is DQ.

Result is safer, but also causes some very limiting and unrealistic courses of fire.
That is strange. Every IDPA match I have been to, I just started in spring, has at least one stage whre I face away from the COF to begin with. And eventhe Classifier has me facing away at least once.

As a safety precaution we have the person decide which way they are going to turn and have everyone else move to the other side.
But your gun is holstered.

The rule only applies to when your gun is in your hand. You are instructed not to draw until you are pointing down range, even though you start facing up range. It is not an IDPA rule, it is a range rule used by many ranges that host matches. Really not an issue in and of itself.
I've always started drawing the same instant I start turning. I've never been told to stop. But it is seeming more and more like CCFSA doesn't like to follow the IDPA rules all that much. :lol: In fact, I'm wondering if they just put on the shoots but aren't really affiliated with them.
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