How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

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JU-87
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How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by JU-87 »

I REALLY enjoyed Appleseed.

It's funny that so many of us "have shot rifles all our lives", and "consider ourselves a good shot". I used to include myself in this ignorant group. We were/are ignorant in the true definition: we had no measure of competence, or really what does it mean to "know how to shoot a rifle?" Appleseed is a standard. It's a very good measure of how good or bad you are RIGHT NOW. It can be very humbling.   :wink:

I scored "Rifleman" the first time ( with a "stock" Bushmaster AR-15 A2) in 2008. 
What worked for me was: I purchased "Fred's guide to becoming a Rifleman" (and read it), and some Redcoat & Army AQT targets that they use at Appleseed.
Dryfire practice.
Shoot targets at range.
Dryfire practice in all 3 positions.
Shoot targets at home with air rifle.
Dryfire practice.  

Here is some shocking advice: Spend some money.   :shock:
On practice ammo.
On "Tech Sights" for your .22 rifle. They are military rear aperture sights. Do a web search.
On 1- 1/4" sling swivels, and a military loop sling.
On Appleseed match fees.
On extra magazines for your rifle.
Go to Small Arms Firing School:http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-nati ... g-schools/  This is the best $45 you will ever spend.

I now consider myself a student of Rifle Marksmanship. I am never going to stop learning and improving.

I did it. You can do it too.
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Javelin Man »

Congrats on making Rifleman! :)

I've attended 4 or 5 Appleseeds and have learned a lot from each one. The experience and lessons learned have been invaluable, the history was extremely interesting and good to know.

That said, I have not strived to attain the vaulted Rifleman Patch. My Marlin wasn't quite good enough and my Mossberg M44 couldn't reload fast enough with the bolt action to score well during the timed portions of the test. I scored nearly 100% on the smallest targets on the bottom but that wasn't enough to make up for only getting half the shots off in the previous targets. To me the important part was the experience and being the best I could be, not just getting a patch. I've used that experience and knowledge on shooting all my other rifles and being a much better shot.
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by BobK »

JU-87 wrote:It's funny that so many of us "have shot rifles all our lives", and "consider ourselves a good shot". I used to include myself in this ignorant group. We were/are ignorant in the true definition: we had no measure of competence, or really what does it mean to "know how to shoot a rifle?"
I am planning on attending an Appleseed this Fall. Everything I've heard form people who have attended is positive. I look forward to attending.

However, I am also grateful it is not the only way to get quality rifle instruction. I am still grateful to the the dedicated instructor team who taught me how to shoot a rifle.

My first formal instruction was in the Fall Quarter of 1973. I was a 17 year-old freshman at Ohio State and took riflery as a PhysEd credit that quarter.

These were the same instructors who taught ROTC at OSU, and it was taught on the range in the ROTC building.

I started the quarter not knowing how to shoot correctly. Over 40 years later, I still remember being taught prone, sitting, kneeling, and standing. I still remember them teaching us trigger control, breath control, use of the sling, natural point of aim, follow through, both eyes open, and sight picture. There were other things they taught, but I no longer remember. I do remember these were single shot, bolt action .22's with aperture sights and sling.

Anyway, by the time the quarter was finished, I was comfortably shooting scores in the 95-99 range using a 10 bullseye target. Laid a solid foundation for the rest of my life. I thank them for their service.
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Bruenor »

After attending my first Appleseed we held a rifle clinic at our gun club for the guys that shoot CMP Matches with us every month. They were all amazed at the info we were able to pass on in one afternoon, from what we learned at an Appleseed event. It opened their eyes as to the basics and instruction they have been missing. I'm not sure how many of them have since attended an Appleseed event.

We then held a couple rifle clinics and invited the rest of the gun club members, funny but the response from most was "I've been shooting all my life I'm an excellent shot, there's nothing you can teach me". How sad when we decide to quit learning.

I am glad I've attended several Appleseeds, I want to go back, and each time I go, I go with an "empty cup" so I can get the most I possibly can from the event. It's amazing how many shooters refuse to empty their cup.

One older gentleman that went with us to our first Appleseed pushed back for the first day and part of the second day of instruction.. he's been shooting for 50 years.. what could that 15yo Kid with the bright colored hat possibly teach him ? I was wondering why he even came to the event. I also can't recall if he managed to get his rifleman's patch before the end of the weekend.
Last edited by Bruenor on Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by WY_Not »

Yep, that teachable attitude is probably the single most important thing you can bring to an Appleseed. We can work around the rifle, the person, their gear, and the weather.

Speaking of the CMP Hi Power matches... I still remember the first time I attended one back when I was a member of the Southern Cuyahoga Sportsman Assoc. The older gentleman who was acting as my spotter sure got wound up when I slung up for the standing stage. :lol:
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Birdman »

Time to chime in. I have been an instructor with Project Appleseed since 2009, starting as a shooter in the Minerva gravel pit in 2008 ( I think that was the year). Many Appleseeds later, all over Ohio and PA, and each one gets better. Yes there can be a closed-brainer or two, but not usually. I really wish we could tell them "double or nothin" - you are such a great shooter, get 210 or above on your first AQT, heck, even your first two day Appleseed shoot, and pay nothing. Don't get 210? Double fee for you! You know it would have to be a guy. I have never seen a lady so closed-minded. I have been coaching a wonderful young lady who at 16 yrs old shot Rifleman scores on every AQT that we shot that weekend (Salem, 2014). She scored 220 and above. Her high was 231. Shoot like a girl --if you can. Why? Open mind. (I do like the empty cup thing Bruenor....I think I will use it!)

I was told a story by another Instructor that at one event, they were shooting some long range steel targets, I don't remember the distance. At that particular time the range was open to the club members. There was club guy with the fanciest, multi-thousand dollar rifle and scope shooting off a bench. Next to him was a young Appleseed lad, maybe 17, on the ground in the sitting position, holding an old bolt action hunting rifle with a cheap scope and a GI sling, banging that gong nine out of ten shots. The older gentleman, even with his fancy equipment, could not hit the gong even once. He walked over to the Instructor and handed him a $100 donation and said "Well done...well done. Whatever you guys do, keep doing it."
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Birdman »

Michael Bane just completed another Project Appleseed weekend in Colorado. Here is his After Action Report:

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2015/04 ... d-aar.html

Some say he and I look very much alike! :D
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by EmeryE101 »

I attended Appleseed last year at the Dillon Sportsmen Center near Zanesville. It rained all day on Saturday. I never had so much fun getting down in the water and shooting. Since I didn't make Rifleman last year, I have already scheduled the July Appleseed back at Dillon. This time I talked some friends from work into joining me this year. Looking forward to it!
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Jake »

Great thread!

I fully credit Appleseed for teaching me everything I know about shooting a rifle...and, as a Rifleman... I'm still learning!

Want to attend an Appleseed?
Here's one in Salem on June 27th & 28th.
http://www.salemhuntingclub.com/appleseedevents.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Bama.45 »

I enjoyed my first Appleseed in March... We got there Saturday morning and it was snowing and cold lol.. Made me think about the folks that fought in those conditions in the Revolutionary War... And of how many of them didnt have as good warm clothes as we did... Or shoes for that matter... I'm going back this month for my second Appleseed... I think I'm going to keep shooting them even after I shoot rifleman.
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Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Jake »

Salem's Appleseed was another great one.
Lots of knowledge being given to even some of the more experienced shooters.
NEVER stop learning!!
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Mr. Glock »

I recall the pre-Appleseed Jake. Bench, steady sandbag rests, 100 yards.

Not to poke fun, I was in the same boat pre-Appleseed.
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Jake »

Admittedly, I didn't even own a rifle 10 years ago.
Once I got one, I had no clue what it really was capable of...or me for that matter.

This past weekend, I shot a Rifleman's score for every AQT...even one with open sight's.
That would never have possible IMO without Appleseed.

I detest bench shooting these days!
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by JustaShooter »

OK, so I'm registered for my first Appleseed at the end of this month at Tusco. Very excited, and nervous.

I have a few gear and related questions:

I've ordered a Midway shooting mat that came highly recommended, but it is back ordered. I have no idea if it will arrive in time, but from what I can tell I really need one. Any suggestions as to what to do if it doesn't make it in before the 25th? (No, I don't have a carpet remnant handy, and I've gotten odd looks when I ask about them at local big box stores).

I see they recommend elbow pads or a shooting jacket - just how important is a shooting jacket? I'm not planning on making a career out of high-power or related shooting disciplines, I just want to get good at shooting a rifle.

If I don't have a shooting jacket but do have a shooting mat, are the elbow pads needed and what should I get? The "cheap cloth shooting jacket" no longer seems to be available from the link they provide in the FAQ.

The recommended practice talks about prone, but I get the feeling we will be shooting from sitting and standing as well - but I can't find a course of fire on the website. Is there a primer of sorts to help me prepare for those aspects as well? It has been way too long since I did anything with positional shooting, and never had any instruction with a sling.

Given that I'm a 50-year old overweight guy with fading eyesight, what else should I do / what else should I be asking? I'm already planning on using a scope on my rifle (Ruger 10-22 for most of the shooting, maybe my AR-15 for longer range stuff if it works out).
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Re: How to shoot "Rifleman" at Appleseed.

Post by Mr. Glock »

Check the "What to expect at Appleseed" thread here on OFCC. It has been around for awhile and will answer most of your questions.

Quick answers: No you don't need a jacket. Yes you need something semi thick to lay on...a couple of moving blankets would work. A thin tarp won't. A thin tarp with two moving blankets would be just fine.
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