Lessons of longtime CCW...

This section is dedicated to all issues relating to training and tactics. Commercial advertisements and solicitation for your own classes are not
permitted.

Moderators: Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Post by Brian D. »

Years in FD/EMS have taught me to look for other exits, almost reflexively. Of course, those emergency exits may not really be locked from the outside, often employees rig 'em so they can take out garbage, slip out for a smoke, etc. without setting off an alarm or getting locked out.

If possible I pick a spot to sit where I can see what's going on; again I've been doing this for so long it's second nature. Sometimes though, like in a fast food joint, there's two or three exits from the dining room, plus the walls are just about all glass. That's both a plus and a minus.

How's about everybody else?
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
SMMAssociates
Posts: 9557
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Youngstown OH

Post by SMMAssociates »

Brian:

Yup.... Back to the wall, view of the register, etc., when possible.

Sometimes the waitkids seat you "improperly", and the place is too busy to find better, but most of the places we go are wide open enough that it's a non-issue,

except

she-who-is-not-ignored doesn't quite understand that I don't want my back to the doors, or, for that matter, sticking out into the aisleway. Or, in the summer, that I don't want to sit where my weapon may print a bit for passersby.

Once in a while it's "please sit here"....

We try to stay out of places where I can't carry, too.... Our current "favorite" hasn't got a liquor license, and isn't likely to get one anytime soon, but the area has just started to build up, and there's at least one application in the mill. IMHO, if that one passes, others will follow, and this guy's already got a bar of sorts in the middle of the main dining room.

(A friend of mine had a restaurant, now sold, that needed a liquor license to survive. Dead people voted local option for that.... I wasn't here, I didn't say this.... The folks I'm concerned about now probably won't have this "problem". Different area....)

Finally, the usual "rules" - watch the door before going in. Are people coming and going in a normal manner? People leaving quickly, without coats, etc? I keep a scanner going in the car, too. If somebody trips an alarm I'll likely hear about it before I get there, which could be before the PD gets there, too.... (And a good excuse to go someplace else....)

Checking for exits is a great idea, guns, criminals, or not.... I've been in a restaurant that had a fire more than once.... (Good fire supression equipment in the latest, but the first one was interesting. No real danger to the patrons - me and my family - but supression was crude.)

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

יזכר לא עד פעם
User avatar
JU-87
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:16 am
Location: N.E. Ohio

Post by JU-87 »

Brain D. wrote:
Not much room for a semiauto to cycle, and garment material can find its way into the works of a wheelgun too. Haven't ever set a jacket or myself ablaze from trying this, but it's certainly possible. You've been warned!
I agree. I took a old insulated vest out to the woods and practiced live firing a .38 Chief Special (exposed hammer) from inside the pocket. I was pleased with acceptable "point shooting "accuracy.
That vest was SMOKIN! :lol:
All 5 shots fired, even as vest became progressively schredded. Definatly renders vest un-usable. Buy a cheap one from Salvation Army, or borrow one from a soon-to-be former friend :twisted: .
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun... Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson, 1785.

Read "War is a Racket" by MG Smedly Butler,USMC. He was awarded the Medal of Honor twice. http://warisaracket.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Henry Kissinger said, "Military Men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in Foreign Policy" and has not denied this quote to this day.
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

JU-87 wrote: I agree. I took a old insulated vest out to the woods and practiced live firing a .38 Chief Special (exposed hammer) from inside the pocket. I was pleased with acceptable "point shooting "accuracy.
That vest was SMOKIN! :lol:
All 5 shots fired, even as vest became progressively schredded. Definatly renders vest un-usable. Buy a cheap one from Salvation Army, or borrow one from a soon-to-be former friend :twisted: .
An automatic might not cycle in a pocket, and a revolver with an exposed hammer can get tangled up. You need to get a hammerless revolver. That's about the only firearm that is gonna fire more than one shot reliably from a pocket. I bought my .357 magnum, S&W 640, hammerless snubby for exactly that reason (and, yeah, it'll set you on fire...).
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Today's topic---drawstrings???

Post by Brian D. »

Just thought I'd bring this up, as maybe some of you got nice CCW-worthy coats/jackets for Christmas, and besides nobody in the thread mentioned this yet:

If your cover garment has a drawstring, make sure it doesn't cause problems with accessing your handgun. (Personally I think they ought to call them "Fumble the draw-strings", and have been cutting them out of my coats for a long time now.)

Just something to look at..
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Post by Brian D. »

Forgot to mention this sooner: The last SW Ohio Meet 'n' Eat at Golden Corral went well, as has been mentioned on other threads. Just wanted to say that my little mental game of "spot the pistol toter" yielded nothing but v-e-r-y subtle hints. (Like the oft-seen cargo vests, which at worst mark you as either a toter...or a geek. ;) Just kiddin', I wear 'em sometimes myself.) In other words, the group present that night is doing an excellent job of carrying discretely. At least among this bunch, a "thumbs-up" is in order.

Hope we will all be a good influence on other folks just now coming into the fold, helping them with useful tips on the right way to carry concealed. It's really not that tough, with just a bit of effort.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
NavyChief
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 11621
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Greene County
Contact:

Post by NavyChief »

Brian -
Given what I was carrying, you'd have had better luck trying to make my 6" Voyager or OC...
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
Mad Duck
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Preble County
Contact:

Post by Mad Duck »

Kinda of funny I was doing an Instructors class, & 6 of us went to lunch together, it was a real dance around the booths everybody jockeying for the seats facing the door! :lol:
And with all those NRA patches the staff was like: :shock:
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Post by Brian D. »

Stopped at the Police 'n' Fire equipment store yesterday. The newest catalog from 5.11 showed a few carry garments I haven't seen. Apparently they now make a "barn coat" jacket, a vest-with-sleeves-added sort of jacket, a sports jacket, and a trench coat, all with the guns/gadgets compartments built in on the inside.

None of this stuff (except the sports coat) really interested ME, but maybe some of you would well served by perusing their catalog or online equivalent.

Ah, winter, even if fairly mild so far! Could be carrying a Desert Eagle without detection right now...although the Glock 19 seems adequete at this time.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Speaking of concealment garments..

Post by Brian D. »

Was in a restaurant yesterday whose chairs had a more-than-average tendency to grab one's coat and make it ride up, possibly causing my handgun to be visible. Don't know if anyone spotted my Browning Hi Power or not, but thank goodness it was the one with really pretty grips. :lol:

Seriously, while you'd be very iunlikely to have a situation such as this get you in any REAL trouble, the police (hopefully) have better things to do with their time than answer "man with a gun" calls that just turn out to be one of us good guys.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Strike up another "victory" for 'plain sight'...

Post by Brian D. »

Was stopped in traffic this a.m., alongside a school bus filled with high schoolers. I fear one or more of them may have spotted my BHP, carried on the right hip at "3 o'clock" with my jacket Buckeye-Tucked securely behind the grips. Saw one girl digging out a cell phone and looking somewhat alarmed.

Traffic opened up and the bus turned off a block or so later. Have no idea if there will be any "fallout" from this, but I WILL NOT change my mode of carry! :x
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
SMMAssociates
Posts: 9557
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Youngstown OH

Post by SMMAssociates »

Brian:

Just thinking....

Regarding that teenager....

Should we have any recourse against her school or parents (or maybe the bus driver?) because she doesn't know that the only people likely to be carrying that way (which is both legal and required) are Law Abiding Citizens? We are inconvenienced or worse if stopped....

[rant]
IAC, I paid for that schoolbus.... :!:
[/rant]

Can't even go to the fool school board meetings....

Way further off topic - I saw something on THR this morning that indicates Cabelas talked some town in IL out of all kinds of goofy firearms sale regulations before they'd build a new store there. They still have to meet State and Federal rules, but it's an improvement. We all have a stake in trying to get Wally World, Dicks, Gander Mountain, and other major dealers to pressure Columbus for us.

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

יזכר לא עד פעם
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

SMMAssociates wrote:
Regarding that teenager....

Should we have any recourse against her school or parents (or maybe the bus driver?) because she doesn't know that the only people likely to be carrying that way (which is both legal and required) are Law Abiding Citizens? We are inconvenienced or worse if stopped....
I would think not. It is not the young lady's responsibility to know the ins and outs off our arcane carry law.

On the other hand perhaps there ought be some recourse against the 911 dispatcher who sends the police, or against the patrolman who makes the stop -- they are indeed responsible for knowing the law and for not unnecessarily hassling law-abiding citizens.
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
SMMAssociates
Posts: 9557
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Youngstown OH

Post by SMMAssociates »

TunnelRat wrote:
SMMAssociates wrote:
Regarding that teenager....

Should we have any recourse against her school or parents (or maybe the bus driver?) because she doesn't know that the only people likely to be carrying that way (which is both legal and required) are Law Abiding Citizens? We are inconvenienced or worse if stopped....
I would think not. It is not the young lady's responsibility to know the ins and outs off our arcane carry law.

On the other hand perhaps there ought be some recourse against the 911 dispatcher who sends the police, or against the patrolman who makes the stop -- they are indeed responsible for knowing the law and for not unnecessarily hassling law-abiding citizens.
That's where I was going with that, Tom....

Problem is that unless the responding Officers can match you with your registration information without making a stop, they sort of have to. It's pretty easy to imitate the "Buckey Tuck" - kinda like the guys painting their gun barrels red to confuse the issue....

The whole point, really, is that concealed means concealed. Poison-pill techniques designed to endanger us (both in terms of getting prosecuted if an Officer decides that something isn't in plain sight, and in all that handling) have to go along with the idiotic CPZ system.

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

יזכר לא עד פעם
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Post by Brian D. »

If nothing else, maybe I should track down that teenager from the bus, and get her to sign an sworn statement attesting that my method of carry is indeed VERY 'plain sight'. :lol:

Obviously, nothing came of this situation; I'm not that hard to find if the police wanted to follw up on that phone call..
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Post Reply