CHL class under age 21?

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CHL class under age 21?

Postby WY_Not » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:24 am

Wasn't sure where to put this one. Mods, feel free to move if it fits better elsewhere.

My 20 year old daughter is wanting to take her CHL class so that when she turns 21 in January she's able to apply. My understanding is that she can buy or own a handgun but that it is illegal for anyone to sell or provide her with one (except me in the course of hunting, sport, or education). Can I gift her a handgun that I currently own? Can I provide her one to use for the class? If so, do I have to be there when she's using it?

All these restrictions (not just firearms related) between 18 and 21 are just beyond stupid. You should either be considered a legal adult or you are not.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:51 am

As I understand it, although it isn't illegal in Ohio for someone over 18 but not yet 21 to possess a handgun, it is illegal to furnish them with one "except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult".

So no, you cannot gift her a handgun, but you can provide her with one of yours to use in the class. You do not have to be present for the class, but the class has to be conducted "under the supervision or control of a responsible adult", which presumably the instructor qualifies as.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby WY_Not » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:01 am

Thanks for the additional info. So, she would be good to go if I give her the handgun at home, pack it properly in her vehicle, and allow her to transport it and herself to the class and back, and then take possession of it when she returns?

JustaShooter wrote:As I understand it, although it isn't illegal in Ohio for someone over 18 but not yet 21 to possess a handgun, it is illegal to furnish them with one "except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult".

So no, you cannot gift her a handgun, but you can provide her with one of yours to use in the class. You do not have to be present for the class, but the class has to be conducted "under the supervision or control of a responsible adult", which presumably the instructor qualifies as.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:20 am

Under 2923.21(A)(3), because of where the phrase "including, but not limited to" is placed, it doesn't look like she needs to be "under the supervision or control of a responsible adult" if you have furnished the handgun for "lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes".

You may want to get an actual legal opinion, though.

And of course, unloaded, locked case, ammo separate.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby pirateguy191 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:37 am

And tell her to follow all applicable traffic laws to and from the class. Just so there has to be no discussion with L.E.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby djthomas » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:45 pm

I would also clear it with the instructor before putting money down to register. The instructor might not comfortable with it for one reason or another, kind of like how FFLs have broad discretion to refuse a sale/transfer even if it would otherwise comply with the law.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby sodbuster95 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:26 pm

WY_Not wrote:Thanks for the additional info. So, she would be good to go if I give her the handgun at home, pack it properly in her vehicle, and allow her to transport it and herself to the class and back, and then take possession of it when she returns?


Too be honest, I'm not sure how comfortable I would be having my own underage daughter transport a firearm. While I think that a literal interpretation of 2923.21(A)(3) in conjunction with 2923.16(C) must ultimately result in the conclusion that she's good to go, you would now be relying on the interpretation of two sections of the ORC by any law enforcement officer that might become involved.

Personally, I'd be more comfortable with either accompanying her to the class (so that I am the one "transporting") or enrolling her in a class that offered loaners for the class. That might be overly cautious, but it is your daughter we're talking about.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby djmac1964 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:29 pm

You could always find an instructor that uses his/her own firearms for the class. That would remove the need for her to transport one herself. I think most instructors have firearms they are willing to let people use for the class if they don't have one of their own.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:08 pm

djmac1964 wrote:You could always find an instructor that uses his/her own firearms for the class. That would remove the need for her to transport one herself. I think most instructors have firearms they are willing to let people use for the class if they don't have one of their own.



Yeah, if you want to be certain, avoid the issue completely.

Be a good daddy and pay the difference if the instructor charges for gun rental and ammo.

:wink:
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby WY_Not » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:14 am

To clear up the matter, I have NO issues doing what is needed to clear the way for her to take the class. If I have to transport, I will. If I have to sign up and attend and hand her the firearm for the live fire portion of the class then I will. If I have to pay for rentals I will. I'm just tickled pink about the idea of her taking the class. Was entirely her idea. She came to me to see what she needed to do to be able to get her CHL next January. :D Heck, she's even looking into taking the Dave Ramsey FPU course. :shock:

If she can transport then that just make scheduling a little easier as she only has to coordinate her schedule and not hers and mine. I was just looking to clarify the legalities. For which thank you all for the responses.

As for trust... HER I trust to transport. HER I trust to handle/own firearms. She's been to several Appleseeds, taken Ohio Hunter Safety Course, been on two Wyoming pronghorn hunts (both successful), and been to the range many times with myself and her grandfather. A LEO's interpretation of ORC? Not so much.

I'll give her the dates/locations and we can discuss schedule and possible consequences and decide from there. At a minimum, transporting the handgun myself to the class is sounding like a good option though. Thanks again for the input!
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby Face » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:04 am

Just a thought. What about someone who supports the online system with the in person range time? You would still have all the "hassle" of range time, but just a 2 hour or so time period.

- to add - really support what you and the girl are doing -
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby WY_Not » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:13 am

That part we already discussed. She's looking for an in person class so that she'll be able to ask the questions she wants to and basically pick the instructor's brain to ensure she has a good grasp of the material. Just can't do that online. Also you never know when someone else will ask a question on something you hadn't thought of.

Face wrote:Just a thought. What about someone who supports the online system with the in person range time? You would still have all the "hassle" of range time, but just a 2 hour or so time period.

- to add - really support what you and the girl are doing -
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby TSiWRX » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:00 am

WY_Not wrote:A LEO's interpretation of ORC? Not so much.


In reading through this thread, this is my worry, too.

The perfect storm scenario of something unexpected/accidental in nature occurring during her commute to or from the venue is something that I just can't get off my mind, as a parent, myself.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby boyscout » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:23 pm

Check with your local Boy Scout council. Most of my pistol students are youth 14 to 20, and our camp has 5 Ruger Mark III's for their use to qualify. Once they have qualified, they can shoot anything they (and we) are comfortable having them shoot.

I would not have her transport her pistol by herself. Stuff happens.
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Re: CHL class under age 21?

Postby dustymedic » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:02 pm

When I got my first Armed security job in 1975, I was not quite 21 years old. My father bought a S&W model 64 and "gifted" it to me...
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