Can we teach the shorter class now?

[fireman]

Hey all, I was curious, after reading the recently passed legislation, if we could teach the shortened class now...or rather after the Gov signs it into law....with the students understanding that the certificates would not be valid until the 91st day after.

As I read it, training must must have been obtained within 3yrs of applying...

I only teach to small groups of people that I know, so I am not concerned about someone trying to obtain their chl before such time. I will also spent any amount of time needed if someone is struggling, just as I did with the 12hr minimum time.

I had formerly taught the "basic pistol plus", but developing my own curriculum based on the law would not be to difficult an undertaking.

Looking for folks thoughts and opinions...

Thanks,
Steve

[pirateguy191]

This law is still 12 hours. The new law goes into effect 90 days after the governor signs it. Until that date, you should teach the 12 hour classes as the law dictates.

[fireman]

Pirateguy, thank you for the response.

I understand the law is 12hrs of training to obtain the chl currently, and perhaps I did not word my question correctly.

Once signed however, and after the 90 day period, then 8hrs will be the minimum required by law to obtain a chl.

Given that the within three years is still included, would an applicant, with the 8hrs of training, not be eligible to apply after the bill become law? Regardless of when the training was obtained.

Steve

[BobK]

Sure, you could teach an 8 hour class now. However, I would certainly insert language into the certification that clearly states the number of training hours and is designed to meet the requirements as of a specified date per the amended requirements in the bill #, etc. etc.

Full and accurate disclosure is key. Don't make it possible (in writing) for a student or a sheriff office to misinterpret the certificate.

[fireman]

Thank you BobK for the response.

I absolutely agree with your thoughts...much like I listed on the basic pistol certs, the applicable ORC numbers that the course applied to, I would certainly list those as well as "valid on such and such date" kind of verbiage.

Just looking for clarification in my reading of the law.

In my short time on this forum, I have a good idea of those whose opinions I place value on....on those that I appreciate their responses


Again, I, as an instructor do not look to churn out numbers of students, but rather want to be sure those that I choose to instruct, learn and understand. I love having the older ladies in class that have limited to no experience in firearms, and may actually be frightened when class starts....and seeing their faces, their excitement as they achieve what they had thought impossible.

Steve

[schmieg]

I look at it to be much as it was in 2004 when we were all waiting for the magic date in April when we could apply for our licenses. Many of us took the course during the January through March period so that we could be standing in line at the sheriff's office on the first day. I had to be in court at 8:00 am that morning and couldn't get to the sheriff's office until around 9:30. Mine was the 315th application in Clermont County, so a lot of people had taken the course before the law became effective.

[JediSkipdogg]

I look at it to be much as it was in 2004 when we were all waiting for the magic date in April when we could apply for our licenses. Many of us took the course during the January through March period so that we could be standing in line at the sheriff's office on the first day. I had to be in court at 8:00 am that morning and couldn't get to the sheriff's office until around 9:30. Mine was the 315th application in Clermont County, so a lot of people had taken the course before the law became effective.

Back then they couldn't even accept applications before that date. The issue now is if an instructor teaches it, doesn't specify it's only 8 hours on the certificate, and the student applies before that date, possibly even accidentally, the instructor is guilty of a crime along with the student. No different than the instructors shortening classes now. One just may get lucky since they could probably keep any actual court appears out past the end of March that they could say it was an accident and a nice judge may dismiss it.

[BobK]

... The issue now is if an instructor teaches it, doesn't specify it's only 8 hours on the certificate, ...

Hence the previous observation:

Full and accurate disclosure is key. Don't make it possible (in writing) for a student or a sheriff office to misinterpret the certificate.

[fireman]

I understand what you are saying Jedi....but again, I don't teach to a room full of strangers. Mine are small groups of people, that I know. It's more of a hobby than source of income income...

Should I do a class.that is in accordance with the potentially soon to be new law, it would be made abundantly clear that there is a time restriction. I would most definitely include the verbiage on the certificate that lists the date that the course applied to the specific law.

Thanks for replies all!!

Steve

[klibben10]

I was wondering the same thing (as an instructor) as fireman.

I'm going to try to call up the local Sheriff office this week and get some input, and may have to call the AG office to determine the exact ORC's to reference as they've likely now changed (I always list those and other pertinent info on my certs). Do you folks know the new ones yet?


I DO think that it would be okay to teach now as long as they don't apply yet and the certs make it clear what qualifications they did take, but like I said I don't know for sure but plan on looking into it. I have a handful of students interested and I hate to slug through another 12 hour course OR make them wait 3 months.


My bigger concern, however, is with the NRA going online with training. On the one hand it's nice, because the new Ohio law says we only have to do 2 hours in person (they can do the other 6 online)...the bad news is this means we are still responsible for what they did/did not learn from the NRA online course and also now have to split our charge for the certification with the NRA. I don't think they've determined a price yet, but another forum of instructors were assuming it'd be around $100 (based on other online training from the NRA). I only charge $80 for my course, granted I could drop the rate if I'm cutting 10 hours of my time...but I'm almost certainly still going to charge $25-50 a person, which means if they already pay the NRA $100 my new cost for students will nearly double.

Also - I'm told once the transition to online courses goes live that the online portion is MANDATORY and cannot be replaced by an instructor, and the student packets will no longer be available. So if you have a box full of packets like I do, be sure to use them soon!

[pirateguy191]

^^^^ Don't teach the NRA class.

[JustaShooter]

^^^^ Don't teach the NRA class.

This^^^

Teach your own class and issue your own certificate, and charge whatever you like. Same as before, or different, it matters not. Folks are looking for a class that meets Ohio's CHL requirements, not an NRA class.

[JediSkipdogg]

I was wondering the same thing (as an instructor) as fireman.

I'm going to try to call up the local Sheriff office this week and get some input, and may have to call the AG office to determine the exact ORC's to reference as they've likely now changed (I always list those and other pertinent info on my certs). Do you folks know the new ones yet?

Neither are probably going to help you yet. The statement that is required on current certificates is the same that will be required on future certificates as the referenced sections have not changed. Therefore, if one teaches a shorter class now they just need to make are that it specifies somewhere on the certificate that its an 8 hour class or just put huge emphasis on the student that they can't turn it in till after March 20th. If they turn it in early, not only could they be charged, but so could you all on a mistake of applying too soon.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

If you teach the NRA class, you already 'split the fee' with the NRA by having to buy the student packets.

The assumptions that the NRA blended training will cost as much as their other training, hopefully, are wrong.

The NRA has built up a legion of instructors, many of whom are making a living actually teaching NRA classes. The blended training will only really replace the student packet.

As an IT guy, I have been exposed to online training systems that required a proctored exam to finish the course. This is basically what the NRA blended training is all about. Without an instructor in the loop to proctor the range time training and testing, the NRA blended training is, essentially, worthless. I'm certain they know this and will do right by their instructor base.

I doubt you'll see a huge cost associated with the online testing. All the overhead (including labor) involved in producing, warehousing and shipping those packets will go away, as will the replacing of damaged or lost (or typo'ed) certifiactes. That's a big savings.

The instructor will be the one to print up the student's certificate, but that certificate will be a PDF. That PDF probably won't exist until and unless the student has passed the online portion of the training. Everything will be tracked in the instructor's 'dashboard' at nrainstructors.org.

I hope.

[JediSkipdogg]

I think you are being too optimistic MWSY. I highly doubt they will do the online portion for $11 (15 if you include shipping). Therefore any extra cost is more for the NRA and less for me.