Concealed Carry Draw Technique

This section is dedicated to all issues relating to training and tactics. Commercial advertisements and solicitation for your own classes are not
permitted.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:08 pm

Firstly, I can reholster without taking my eyes off the target from any of my three carry methods. I've trained with them and do it all the time so no issue.

With that said, I have to partially agree with Carmen, notice, partially. Just because a threat is down does not mean it's over. The only time I think a threat can still be a threat is if you only wound someone. I don't teach to kill, I teach to stop the threat. However, it doesn't always involve firearms. If you by chance hit someone with a baseball bat in the thigh, you have stopped the threat outside of a distance of about 5 feet. However, I believe the suspect is still capable of inflicting harm therefore I believe they need to be restrained. I will look for something around to restrain them if possible. Obviously, this cannot be done with the firearm still out. Therefore I would need to keep my eyes fully on the target while I'm able to restrain the person.

Now, if the threat is down and shows absolutely no signs of movement, then yes, one could take their eyes off the target to reholster.

A third case, the subject has a firearm, until their firearm is away from them, there is no time I am going to reholster. Even if they are down and laying on top of said firearm because they fell on it, I'm pushing them away to kick the firearm away from them or keeping my firearm on them until police arrive. I will never reholster until I'm sure the assailant is unarmed. And FYI....I can't think of a single case where robbers had multiple firearms.

Is that satisfactory carmen? :mrgreen: Every scenario is different and therefore it's really hard to say how each should be handled.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
 
Posts: 10126
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:20 pm

I don't believe I gave the indication that because you re-holster the threat is over....My point being if you take your eyes off the threat that would be a mistake..And by looking at your holster when re-holstering is not keeping your eye on the threat......

Thanks Jedi for your explanation..... :mrgreen:
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby Klingon00 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:22 pm

First, I'd like to say I appreciate your input Jedi. As with most things in life, there's no one size fits all solution to every problem.

JediSkipdogg wrote:Firstly, I can reholster without taking my eyes off the target from any of my three carry methods. I've trained with them and do it all the time so no issue.


I can understand if you were using a large open duty holster, where the LEO's job often includes needing your hands free for restraining, however would you say this also applies to your average civilian CHL holder? I'd hate for someone new to come by this forum and start doing that and shoot themselves in the leg thinking this was the way it should be done... I think a large dose of caution should be included here, as I believe there are inherent risks to doing this.
User avatar
Klingon00
 
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:35 pm

The maker of the video carries the same way I do.....I am only referring to that method of carry because that is the way I carry..
....So if it doesn't work for someone that carries differently fine..I'm only concerned about my method.....the exact way LE carries for obvious reasons...

When I took my CHL class that is the way we were taught to re-holster..don't remember how the Military taught it...
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:12 pm

Klingon00 wrote:First, I'd like to say I appreciate your input Jedi. As with most things in life, there's no one size fits all solution to every problem.

JediSkipdogg wrote:Firstly, I can reholster without taking my eyes off the target from any of my three carry methods. I've trained with them and do it all the time so no issue.


I can understand if you were using a large open duty holster, where the LEO's job often includes needing your hands free for restraining, however would you say this also applies to your average civilian CHL holder? I'd hate for someone new to come by this forum and start doing that and shoot themselves in the leg thinking this was the way it should be done... I think a large dose of caution should be included here, as I believe there are inherent risks to doing this.


I use four holsters..

Blackhawk Serpa on right hip. Opening is wide enough to be able to easily place without seeing.

Kydex for small of the back. No problems there.

Pocket holster for 380. If I miss the holster it's really not a huge issue as my 380 has a safety and I would engage it before putting away. .

Ankle holster for 380. Probably the hardest to reholster as I only use it wearing long pants and it would require me using both hands. I rarely use this one though.


Now, if you are wearing a nylon holster or something that isn't firm, them yes, it could be an issue. Besides my pocket holster, all of the other three retain their shape and don't collapse therefore allowing easy placement back inside. I personally can't stand and won't recommend a straight nylon and sometimes even leather only holster to anyone. A good holster needs to not collapse under normal wear when empty, like many Nylon Uncle Mike's holsters would do.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
 
Posts: 10126
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby Klingon00 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:14 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:When I took my CHL class that is the way we were taught to re-holster..don't remember how the Military taught it...


Interesting. In my CHL class they taught the basic rules of gun safety of which I believe the act of not looking where you are holstering violates at least two.

1) Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and be aware of where that safe direction is.
2) Never put your finger on the trigger (And by extension, allow anything to get into the trigger guard) unless you are ready to shoot and your sights are on target.

That said, we are all adults who assume and take risks every day. If you are confident in your high speed-low drag skills, more power to you. :wink: I'd just hate for someone to get the wrong idea and try it without first understanding the risks.

JediSkipdogg wrote:Now, if you are wearing a nylon holster or something that isn't firm, them yes, it could be an issue. Besides my pocket holster, all of the other three retain their shape and don't collapse therefore allowing easy placement back inside. I personally can't stand and won't recommend a straight nylon and sometimes even leather only holster to anyone. A good holster needs to not collapse under normal wear when empty, like many Nylon Uncle Mike's holsters would do.


I fully agree with you on this Jedi. A proper holster isn't just for looks, it's a safety issue.
User avatar
Klingon00
 
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby TSiWRX » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:33 pm

A Kydex/plastic holster can still pick up debris inside. A hybrid holster's leather/fabric component can still stretch. Your clothing or parts of it can always foul the re-holster stroke.

On the other hand, a well-made full-leather or ballistic nylon holster may be every bit as stiff as a full hardshell Kydex holster.

The key is buying quality gear and making sure that gear remains serviceable.

Holsters are wear items. Even Kydex will eventually crack. Replace as-necessary.

There are few absolute rights or wrongs when it comes to re-holstering - I personally think that there's merit to what everyone has contributed to this thread so far. Be sure that the threat is no longer a threat and that there are no more threats. Look at the holster if you need to and take your time. Be sure that your finger is off the trigger and that you're not encountering unexpected resistance in the re-holster stroke, resistance that would suggest that perhaps something is preventing the gun from going in properly and thus may cause the trigger to be snagged and the gun to discharge.

Most quality holsters will allow you to re-holster with actually pretty good speed, and yes, there may come one day where you will need to get that gun put away with some haste. Even then, it doesn't mean that you're rushing and slamming that gun into the holster. I know that this sounds self-contradictory, but it's really not. :) The re-holster stroke is something that I believe should be practiced and understood by concealed carriers simply because we are introducing a level of complexity to the equation. Practice - to ingrain the correct and safe technique - is key. :)
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
User avatar
TSiWRX
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 6615
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Heights

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:51 am

Klinkon....I posted it before and I'll post it again for you...Speed has nothing to do with re-holstering...at least not with me.......I never said that.
If I am involved in a incident with a BG whether he's still a threat or not, I'm not taking my eyes off of him until LE has control of the situation......re-holstering if done correctly with the right holster (I use a Serpa) will not be unsafe in any way......
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby Klingon00 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Back to our discussion on proper and safe holsters,

I found a good example of what happens when a cheap holster goes bad.

WARNING: if the sight of the aftermath of a ND might bother you, avoid this link.

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firea ... ischarges/

Guy was wearing a cheap leather holster that got soft over time and a crease formed which got caught in the trigger guard. I would also caution that just because you have a good holster, it doesn't mean you are completely free and clear from danger. A cover garment can just as easily cause a similar outcome.

As for relying upon safeties to save you, one thing I've learned over the years is that mechanical devices fail. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if given enough time and use, it will eventually be inevitable. Relying on a machine to save you rather than practicing safe behavior can lead to complacency. Complacency is when we as humans tend to screw up (I swear that gun was unloaded!).

For me personally, I might practice doing it during dry fire, but I won't be doing that during regular carry. Who knows what life may throw at you, it could come in handy some day. However, I don't think I'm going to unnecessarily put myself or others around me at risk just so I can look cool at the range. 8)
User avatar
Klingon00
 
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby Brian D. » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:36 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:I hope some of the highly trained guys on the forum give their opinions on this.....

Like Jake, TR, just to name a few......


:cry: What, I'm not on your A-List, carmen? :wink:

EDIT TO ADD: Sorry about the Jim Higginbotham on youtube advice...I just now looked and most of his stuff, can't find it now. No idea about that.
Last edited by Brian D. on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14739
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:45 pm

I always practice drawing and re-holstering with a loaded gun....I am always by myself and in a safe environment....
..I practice with different cover clothing, some works easier then others..
Can I ever expect a ND ? Probably....But I'll keep practicing never the less....
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:00 pm

Brian D. wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:I hope some of the highly trained guys on the forum give their opinions on this.....

Like Jake, TR, just to name a few......


:cry: What, I'm not on your A-List, carmen? :wink:

EDIT TO ADD: Sorry about the Jim Higginbotham on youtube advice...I just now looked and most of his stuff, can't find it now. No idea about that.



Sorry Brian..I could of named a couple dozen guys..... :oops:
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby Brian D. » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:41 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:Sorry Brian..I could of named a couple dozen guys..... :oops:


Just funnin' with ya Carmen.

I think in the past some of the TDI instructors have put up a bit of instructional video too. Thing about that is, they post too much of the "good stuff" for all to see for free, people don't come and take the classes hands-on. Big mistake on the part of the potential students of these firearms schools, sitting at home in front of a screen is obviously not very valuable compared to doing the drills for real, under the eyes of experienced teachers. Kinda glad these computer gizmos weren't around when I was younger and first learning guns.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14739
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby SnareMan » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:48 pm

Brian D. wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:Sorry Brian..I could of named a couple dozen guys..... :oops:


Just funnin' with ya Carmen.

I think in the past some of the TDI instructors have put up a bit of instructional video too. Thing about that is, they post too much of the "good stuff" for all to see for free, people don't come and take the classes hands-on. Big mistake on the part of the potential students of these firearms schools, sitting at home in front of a screen is obviously not very valuable compared to doing the drills for real, under the eyes of experienced teachers. Kinda glad these computer gizmos weren't around when I was younger and first learning guns.


I'm heading to TDI tonight. :-)
SnareMan
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:09 pm
Location: Dayton

Re: Concealed Carry Draw Technique

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:52 pm

Time and energy...Short on both of them....
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 18297
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

PreviousNext

Return to Training & Tactics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest