pre-press trigger or not to holster?

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mreising
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by mreising »

Tweed Ring wrote:I sense a certain degree of liability on the part of the instructor if he didn't follow the Ohio CHL instruction law. I also sense liability on the part of the trainee, if he knows his class of instruction was faulty, and yet he took no affirmative steps to correct the situation.
An incident in a SW OH county a few years ago resulted in the students being directed to obtain a proper course within 30 days or their licenses would be revoked. No charges for the students, the instructor had some problems though. A couple of the students came to me on recommendation from the sheriff's office and a contact the student had at NRA. There may have been more than just the two but they were the only ones to admit it.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Tweed Ring
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Tweed Ring »

There was a similar situation in the Greater Cleveland area. Guy was training people in the backseat of his taxi cab. If memory serves either no range or range with airsoft guns. Everybody had to return their CHL certificates to the respective sheriff, and the guy went to court.

I have no warm feelings for the few instructors who game the system. Likewise, I don't care for the students who do not accurately reflect upon their CHL class because they believe it caters to the lowest common denominator.
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Jake »

Guy was training people in the backseat of his taxi cab.
That was an awesome class!
He threw in 30 min. of "Driving with your Knees" at no additional cost.
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Tweed Ring
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Tweed Ring »

Jake wrote:
Guy was training people in the backseat of his taxi cab.
That was an awesome class!
He threw in 30 min. of "Driving with your Knees" at no additional cost.
Sorry, I didn't qualify for that part of the class. After about 20 minutes, my left knee gave out.
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Klingon00
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Klingon00 »

Are there any requirements to becoming an instructor such as certifications or anything like that? Or does the law only specify what the class must cover and how long it must be? I'm wondering how wide spread this issue may be where "instructors" are out there scamming people with poor classes that don't meet the minimum requirements? Is there a good way to determine if someone offering CHL classes is legit?

I have recently heard through a co-worker that one of their neighbors is teaching CHL classes out of their basement and using training laser guns instead of live fire. I don't have a name and I don't know this first hand or any of his students so I'm not really sure of the best way to deal with this information I've learned if anything... but it is concerning to hear. Unfortunately the co-worker isn't that knowledgeable themselves and wasn't real keen to divulge more information after I expressed concerns that it may not be kosher.

Oddly, according to this co-worker, the guy also had all sorts of Obama and Sherrod Brown signs in his front yard during election season... :?
Tweed Ring
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Tweed Ring »

yes, there are requirments from the NRA if one wants to be an NRA Instructor. I'd rattle them off, but my cold is driving me bacl to bed.

As to folks being die hards: friend of mine lives in Bexley, her neighbor still proudly displays q Kerry sign.
mreising
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by mreising »

Live fire is required, no laser simulators or airsoft. As Tweed Ring mentioned, NRA has qualifications for instructors, as does the OPOTC for those that are law enforcement certified instructors. Someone being qualified to instruct does not always mean their class will be a quality class unfortunately.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Tweed Ring
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Tweed Ring »

Klingon00 wrote:Are there any requirements to becoming an instructor such as certifications or anything like that? Or does the law only specify what the class must cover and how long it must be? I'm wondering how wide spread this issue may be where "instructors" are out there scamming people with poor classes that don't meet the minimum requirements? Is there a good way to determine if someone offering CHL classes is legit?

I have recently heard through a co-worker that one of their neighbors is teaching CHL classes out of their basement and using training laser guns instead of live fire. I don't have a name and I don't know this first hand or any of his students so I'm not really sure of the best way to deal with this information I've learned if anything... but it is concerning to hear. Unfortunately the co-worker isn't that knowledgeable themselves and wasn't real keen to divulge more information after I expressed concerns that it may not be kosher.

Oddly, according to this co-worker, the guy also had all sorts of Obama and Sherrod Brown signs in his front yard during election season... :?
I did a lot of research, looking for the right NRA certified Instructor-Trainer class. (I was a baton Instructor-Trainer in a number of disciplines, so I was very particular.) I settled upon Mr. Doug Stanton, of Mt Gilead, Ohio. Mr. Stanton is the cat's backside, he has one hell of a harrowing story to tell. If interested, Google him. Great instructor, BTW.

Class was held at Bakes, Blakes(?) in/near Lexington, Ohio. Two or three successive weekends; I just cannot remember. Expensive, but well worth the cost, once I learned his story. In our class, there were people from all over the state, and a couple of out-of-state students, as well.

Mixture of classroom and range work. Lots of standing in front of the group and delivering the lesson plan. If you go this route, go in the Ohio nice weather season, as the range was not heated, and was very cold.

Sorry, that's all I can remember, it was some years ago. I became an NRA certified instructor because of ego.
DrakeMaverick
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by DrakeMaverick »

Hey everyone just had some follow up questions concerning your advice to Kay on the bad training that she received. If she went somewhere else and got the required/legal training for her CCW. Would she have to re-apply to the Sheriff Dept. for another CCW? Or since she might be concerned about getting in trouble herself, would having the proper certification keep her CCW safe just in case? Thanks
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BobK
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by BobK »

If she provided the correct certification at the same time she was making the complaint, she would be keeping herself safe and her license protected. No need to re-apply.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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mreising
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by mreising »

BobK wrote:If she provided the correct certification at the same time she was making the complaint, she would be keeping herself safe and her license protected. No need to re-apply.
Agreed and this would be protection against someone else making a complaint and the sheriff revoking all the licenses. In other words, it's better to be the first to call. I think I've heard that somewhere else.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Tweed Ring
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by Tweed Ring »

Typically, there is a certain amount of gravitas assigned to whomever is the first caller.
cgs500
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?

Post by cgs500 »

king,

It's simple! Have your friends and yourself get a credible, certified trainer to give you the full course, take the REAL certificate to the sheriff dept. because you have learned the former course didn't meet the requirements. I am sure you will be asked why, so share what you now know.

You are going to have bigger problems, than worrying about carrying on an empty chamber, if you have to use your handgun in a self defense situation where there is a question on it's use. Do you really think the credentials of your instructor won't come up in discovery? Do you think a lawyer won't dig up this post?

You posted that you know the course didn't meet the requirements, you are now playing with a loaded (legal) gun if you choose to carry. And after reading what happened to those from the Col. Dispatch, you may have problems now, you just don't know it yet.
NRA life member, Ohio 4-H certified rifle instructor
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