Learning from different schools/instructors.

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Tweed Ring
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Tweed Ring »

I'm clearly not unique in this matter. Got a call late one night from one of my baton students. Earlier that evening, he was involved in a nasty situation in an elevator car and said he could hear my voice yelling in his ear, telling him what to do and what not to do. He telephoned to tell me that, due to the training he received from me, he was able to go home to his wife and kids in one piece. That is some of the best praise a trainer can receive.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Gaspode »

Jake wrote:
i'm crazy for practicing 'Force Choke
Is that something I want to ask about?
:oops:
Image

Geez...
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Jake »

I've been taking my video camera to the range
Great!

I've found this to be a great tool as well (for better or worse).
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Jake wrote:
I've been taking my video camera to the range
Great!

I've found this to be a great tool as well (for better or worse).
It's a super tool. Plexiglass to make a semi-cheap "blast shield" around a box and then close up of my upper torso and hands. Anyone that doesn't do this I highly recommend it. Play it back slowly in any media player and it shows small errors in trigger technique.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Jake »

I've not gone to the extreme of a blast shield, but it sounds cool.
8)
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Jake wrote:I've not gone to the extreme of a blast shield, but it sounds cool.
8)
Well, when you own a $2000 video camera and don't want a scratch on the lens or anything else accidentally strinking it you might do it too. My "blast shield" has a few scratches on it from brass flying that way. I just figure protect the camera and it only took maybe an hour to build and $20 in parts. Then I can flip around the LCD to make sure I'm in the frame.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Jake »

Yeah...I don't have a 2k camera.
:cry:

:mrgreen:
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by TSiWRX »

RE: The Karate Kid -
JediSkipdogg wrote: I'm thinking the female karate kid where she jumped onto or over the car that came after her.
Ah, my bad. My recollections of that one is pretty fuzzy...it's not a movie that I revisited. :P
I'm one that believes one needs to search out and find the instructor that works with them best. One reason I have put off taking classes at TDI so much is from people that I work with. They do training with Benner once a year and some of our competition shooters and really dead on shooters don't like his technique. I know everyone on here loves him and many other forums do as well, however, most say there's better. The only advantage is TDI is a one hour drive for me, whereas anything else is 5 hours or flying. Therefore I've done most of my training with just guys that I work with or shooting on my own.
Without referencing specific instructors - i.e. not speaking specifically of TDI/Benner - yes, I definitely believe that finding a "match" is quite important. Different teachers have different styles - and that can even bleed-through to the entire school, particularly if it is the founder/chief-instructor - and a failure to match the teaching style with that of the student's learning style is going to make any lesson all that much harder, if not impossible.

For me, though, I'm willing to give any instructor a try, personally. Nevertheless, if advice comes from a close friend whom II know well or another source that I respect equally, it will be taken with more weight, and combined with other factors, it may just cause me to either avoid that school/instructor or push them farther down on the list. To be honest, I'm finding myself somewhat in this kind of a situation, currently ("somewhat," because my interactions with one of their trainers have been nothing but pleasant), and I can definitely see where you're coming from, with your story.

As for distance/time, that's a big concern for me, currently.

Some of my friends are rather shocked that I forked out so much cash for Chris Costa's classes this summer, but to me, it's rather simple: I really -really- want to do TDI, but it's not do-able for me as a one-day event due to distance. With tuition/ammo-consumption that's easily in the same ballpark and the fact that Costa's classes will be local (sure, no shoot-house facilities, OK, I concede that), it's not hard to see why I made the choice I did, this year.
I also think a huge detriment is the cost of these classes. Many are in the area of $600 for two days and require 1000 rounds of ammo. Well, $600 is around 6000 rounds of 9mm reloaded. So, for that same amount I can shoot shoot and shoot and find someone to just watch what I'm doing or what I've been doing more recently....that is I've been taking my video camera to the range and seeing that I am slightly jerking the gun before each trigger pull. I'm working on that and it has greatly improved by self analyzing.

Do I think the classes are worth it? For someone that needs to maybe be forced to shoot, definitely. If you can't find time on your own to shoot at least 500 rounds a month, then yes, it will help force someone to shoot. I tell people all the time in my classes that practice makes perfect. But they also need to analyze everything going on if they happen to have a shooting problem. At that point, different people may see different errors.
I think that this needs to be a personal decision - like you said, some people may need to be "forced to shoot," but I don't think it's limited to just that context. I think getting proper instruction is also important for true beginners (who simply may not know that they don't know), as well as to refresh (and perhaps even introduce new ideas and practices to) experienced shooters.

I also think that prior to "self-teaching," one needs to take a hard and honest look at the person in the mirror: i.e. do I have the honesty and humility to admit my faults and weaknesses, and to be able to earnestly attempt to overcome them. As I'm sure we are all aware via the YouTube videos we so often cite, there's plenty of self-delusional types out there.

Yes, practice does make perfect, but improper practice also ingrains problems. Look at some "Bubbas" who must be told again and again (and again, if they haven't shot themselves by that point :lol: ) to keep their finger off the trigger - whereas a 4-year-old child can be taught to religiously obey that rule simply because they have to scars to bear, no bad habits to break.

I'm definitely going to take up filming my solo sessions - that's a GREAT idea! Thank you! :)
Also with classes you have different stances, different ways to hold the gun ready, etc. Most instructors may only go over 1-2 methods when each method has a good purpose. Alot depends on the situation one is in and it's near impossible to train for all of those. I don't see having too many methods as bad. What you do then is take each method you learn, find what works best for YOU and then practice galore with that method to sink it into your mind. I doubt I can empasize training enough but training on your own is more important than training with a school/instructor. You can take 20 classes, but unless you sink into your mind the skillset that works for you, it will just cause confusion. I see it every day at work, there's about a dozen methods I can pull up a driver's license for someone, what works best for me may not work best for someone else. I've seen people get confused when we try to teach them every method, therefore I try one method and perfect them on it and then teach another method. In the end, as long as you get the final response I want, I don't care how you did it.
I agree wholeheartedly.

Even the most rigorous 8-hour "basic manipulations" class can't approach the number of reps that I can do, of the draw, if I but practiced it 15 times in the morning and again 15 times in the evening. Self-driven practice is absolutely critical in any learning.

And definitely, in the end, it's about being able to exercise the skills you have.
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JediSkipdogg
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by JediSkipdogg »

TSiWRX wrote:Even the most rigorous 8-hour "basic manipulations" class can't approach the number of reps that I can do, of the draw, if I but practiced it 15 times in the morning and again 15 times in the evening. Self-driven practice is absolutely critical in any learning.

And definitely, in the end, it's about being able to exercise the skills you have.
One thing I'd like to add to this is maybe more of a slight advertisement but for a product that I don't own yet. I am highly intrigued by the SIRT training pistol from Next Level Training. I think it can teach proper draw techinique, proper sight alignment, proper trigger squeeze, etc. Only one of my handguns has a laser on it and one night my co-instructor and I were shooting in the dark of a large farm and I was amazed how much I moved when puling the trigger. That night changed my training methods and is when I started using a camera to see my mistakes.

I think the SIRT pistol with having the red/green laser can help anyone out while being safe. You can practice in your own home, at work, anywhere really. I do not own one yet and the reason is because they only make it in a Glock and unfortunately, I {inappropriate language} with the glock 100% of the time but don't want to take the time learning to shoot a gun that I shoot different than anything else to begin with. They are suppose to be coming out with an M&P and a few other models later this year. I might possibly be getting one in the next few months as one of their prototype models to test for them. If I do, I'll post how well I think it works as a training tool.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by TSiWRX »

^ The SIRT is awesome, for just those reasons. :)

I am a strong believer in dry-fire practice and sub-caliber training, including airsoft. It also miffs me to no end that the SIRT is so far only available for the Glock platform (and a replacement bolt for the AR), and I think a lot of us have been holding our collective breaths for the M&P and XD variants.

As soon as I have a few dollars freed-up, I'm getting the newly released Tokyo Marui XDm airsoft gas-blow-back replica. 8)

I have a couple of lasers that I attach to my pistols for dry-training, and will likely also invest in one of the laser practice systems in the near future.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Jake »

^^^

I want to see your junk drawer!
:lol:
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by TSiWRX »

^ Actually the irony is that I'd been an avid airsoft hobbyist back in the early parts of the decade - a lot of my old gear/accessories (I favored "real" stuff, not "airsoft-grade") is finding good use. :)


-----


And back on-topic:

I posted on another Forum my "bucket list," so here it is, again. It's in no particular order. :) This is exclusive of anyone I've either already studied with or have paid/pending classes:

Thunder Ranch
Gunsite
Magpul
Haley Strategic/Travis Haley
I.C.E./Rob Pincus
Tactical Shooting Academy/Fist-Fire/D.R.Middlebrooks
Paul Gomez
Suarez
Close Quarters Tactical
Michael J. de Bethencourt
Yavapai Firearms Academy/Louis Awerbuck
Massad Ayoob Group
TDI
Pistol-Training.com
ShivWorks
Martial Blade Concepts/Michael Janich
Last edited by TSiWRX on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by Jake »

That's a heck of a village trying to teach you how to fish.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by TSiWRX »

^ Hey man, it *_is_* a bucket list, after all! A boy can dream! :D

I actually have specifics that I'd like to pursue, with each set of instructors/schools.

The more/longer I'm in this, the more I'm realizing that it's not just about any one aspect of the game: to survive, one must be well-versed in all of the components of combatives. No, you don't need to be a Level-27-Ninja-Assassin :P , but anything and everything that you can tie together will increase your odds of survival. All training dovetails.
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Re: Learning from different schools/instructors.

Post by JediSkipdogg »

TSiWRX wrote:I am a strong believer in dry-fire practice and sub-caliber training, including airsoft. It also miffs me to no end that the SIRT is so far only available for the Glock platform (and a replacement bolt for the AR), and I think a lot of us have been holding our collective breaths for the M&P and XD variants.
I've spoken with both David and Ryan from SIRT numerous times about this over the past few months. Both said an M&P version should be out by Spring of this year followed by many other variants as well. They weren't sure how many would come to market but they were trying to hit every major firearm such as a 1911 style, Ruger, Springfield, etc. They are even trying to do a 380 model but are having a hard time getting all their parts to fit inside a small package and still maintain the original firearm shape. I'll keep everyone updated on them and I do plan on taking their training class to be a SIRT Certified Instructor this year. Airfare right now is what's killing the flight to Washington.
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