"Snubby Summit" Review

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Safety Guy
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:37 am
Location: Columbus, OH

"Snubby Summit" Review

Post by Safety Guy »

This past weekend I attended the "Snubby Summit" put on by Options for Personal Security's Andy Stanford at the American Police Hall of Fame down in Titusville, FL.

http://www.aphf.org/

This was probably a "one time only event" in terms of all the assembled "big names," but Andy will probably try to hold something similar every year. I'd include the OPS website but it appears to be down right now.

The APHF facilities included a large meeting room, a museum, two indoor pistol ranges, as well as the usual smaller meeting rooms.

Reps from S&W and Taurus were there showing off some of their latest guns. One gun that sticks in my mind was the .45 Colt/.410 caliber revolver from Taurus. IIRC it was a five shot with a looong cylinder and about a three or four inch barrel. Impressive! Especially without those silly ports.

I'll briefly cover the classes I took, considering I don't have my notes right now:

Mas Ayoob gave the opening lecture on the snubnose revolver, it's history from the Colt D.S. in the twenties through the Smith Airweights and so forth. Although many other guns get the most press, especially the 9mm and more recent calibers, the snubnose remains perhaps the most carried handgun in America due to it's small size and ease of use. As a backup, a concealment arm, or the main sidearm of many people, it was about time it received it's due in a symposium of its own. Mas also conducted a range session on "shooting from the pocket." (I couldn't attend everything and I missed this one.)

Tom Givens spoke next on the "counterpoint" of the small "pocket rocket" 9mms which mainly included the Kahr and the baby Glock. Comparisons were made on weight, number of shots, etc. It was a good presentation and no one killed him for providing the unpopular viewpoint at this wheelgun seminar. :)

Andy Stanford covered what he called "Ayoob's Hierarchy" which went from least important to most:

4. Gear
3. Skill
2. Tactics
1. Mindset

Having a good gun and gear is important, but pales in comparison with the proper awareness and combative mindset necessary to actually employ lethal force in self-defense. Skill is also good, but of lesser importance than using the proper tactics to manage and dominate a violent encounter. Most gunfights simply do not involve long range shooting, but they do involve outthinking and outmanuvering a criminal attacker.

Next I attended Jim Cirillo's class on snubby ammo. For those of you unfamiliar with Jim, he worked the old NYPD Stakeout Squad "back in the day" and was involved in multiple gunfights with armed robbers. He talked not only about his experiences with the performance of the old standard pressure .38 158 RNL round, but also what he observed in regards to other calibers, including 12 ga. 00 Buck and .30 Carbine (the squad used the W-W Hollow Soft Points which he said gave very good performance on the bad guys). Jim has given the rights to manufacture his special wadcutter rounds to Fuzzy Fletcher of Village Metalworks:

http://www.safestop.net/

The idea is that a full profile wadcutter is less likely to skip off a skull and also imparts a full caliber hole in the flesh and blood target. With adequate penetration at the lower snub velocities, this ammo is probably the best way to go to get your attacker to "cease and desist."

My range session that day consisted of a "snubby course of fire" designed by Paul Gomez to provide more realistic ranges and skill developments in the use of the snubnose. Distances were all 15 yards and under, with more emphasis on one hand and off hand shooting.

Ex CIA officer Ed Lovette gave a talk on Terrorism and our response to it in the past few years (and what needs to improve). Essentially, our country has improved in certain areas, but has a long way to go, especially in getting our citizenry on board to help keep watch. One of the major threats appears to be the lack of control of our border areas (including Canada). He covered multiple accounts of what we know to have been terror attempts or plans in the past few years and he emphasized that they were just "those we know about." Ed's a good guy with tons of intel experience and I used his book "Defensive Living" (coauthored by Dave Spaulding) in a self-defense class I taught once at OSU. He has also written a book on the snubnose revolver.

On Sunday I did mostly range training:

Claude Werner of the Roger's School of speed shooting gave a session on how to set up your range training to provide improvement and not just going through ammo. It involved use of dry fire and a timer.

Michael DeBethancourt had a great session on reloading the revolver but also the mindset involved in getting away from the range mentality and into one which is concerned mainly with "winning the fight." Taking lessons from the real world, including the Newhall Incident, Michael (or "Bobo," just don't call him "Mike!") emphasized range work which got the empty revolver back up and shooting with maximum speed and minimum bobbling. (It was an interesting counterpoint to Ayoob's Stressfire system method.)

Other sessions I didnt' attend were conducted by Clyde Caceras (sp?) and "Southnarc" and Paul Gomez.

I talked with Clyde between classes about the Crimson Trace Lasergrips he was representing (I can't remember the name of his book but he's written one) and was rather impressed by the amount of thought he (and I'm sure others) has put into the use of lasers on handguns. This is something I'll have to look into more, though I admit I am somewhat skeptical at any widespread use of these things outside the training or prison environments.

"S'narc" and Paul did a block on Extreme Close Quarters handgun which I did not attend simply because I've already taken the training and I wanted to attend others' classes for this seminar. ECQ handgun includes drawing to a high pectoral retention position (#2 in the drawstroke) and begins by first putting all weapons use "in context" of a real world criminal assault. Too many firearms "self-defense" programs begin and end with shooting paper targets at from one to several yards on out. In contrast, S'narc begins with the handgun hidden away and the approach of a suspicious person who needs to be NOTICED (awareness) and then "challenged" appropriately. His teachings on this process are the best I've ever seen, and I can't recommend him enough. Paul Gomez usually helps with this training and serves not only as another teacher, but also as the "striking dummy" for Simunitions. :) Ouch.

I could go on with more info, especially on S'narc's stuff, but I need to end this piece. :) Anyways, gunwriter Walt Rauch was there with his son "Walt" and perhaps we'll see an article on the Summit in the next few months.

Next year OPS plans on a "Glock Summit" at the APHF and I bet it will just as groundbreaking as this one was. It is not often that you get so many "thinkers" of handgun combatives together to put on an interactive show. Considering the limitations of the "square range," it is not that easy to do!

Karl
I WANT VERMONT! (OR "ALASKA")
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Post by Brian D. »

Good report. Sounds like one could glean a lot of info in a short time going to one of these "super sessions".
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
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