Double action - why it's still relevant.
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:45 pm
My intention here is to consolidate the benefits, and how to address the pitfalls. There will be links to other sources that can tell how and why to overcome any shortfalls.
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Commentary like "I like xyz" without factual, non-emotion based logical responses or "should have bought abc" are counter productive, and I'd encourage that type of commentary to be avoided. It serves no purpose but to see yourself type.
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I'd like to make a thread about double action/single action, and why it's still relevant in today's world of lighter and lighter striker fires (that are becoming more and more pre-tensioned, and essentially become single action sans safety, in my opinon). So why the hell do this, expecially with new shooters?
Well, for one, it's safer. The LENGTH of trigger travel keeps you out of trouble. It's also possible to apply light pressure to a decocked hammer while holstering, which will prevent a discharge in the event of foreign objects/fingers getting wedged in the holster. Seriously, it's neigh impossible to overcome that slight amount of pressure on the hammer with a lot of pressure on the trigger. Take a seriously close look at how people reholster, especially if that holster is anything besides 100% kydex - they likely flag themselves, or wedge the muzzle against their hip as a lever to get the pistol in the holster. While this is an equipment error, the addition of a decocked, double action introduces a huge layer of safety. This is a benefit that those that carry appendix tend to enjoy, and is why the Glock striker-control-device exists.
For two, they allow for a great trigger break. Try the single action of a Beretta 92 or any of the classic Sigs, and you'll find a trigger pull that puts striker guns to shame. If you want to put dollar to dollar for modifications, it's not too hard to spend 150-200 on M&P and Glocks to improve the trigger, and you can purchase a 'trigger job in a bag' for a beretta from Langton Tactical for the same price point that is drop in.
Three, they allow for the 'no safety/fumble' shooting, while providing time to think "does this situation still warrant a shot" and with no safety to exist, also means no safety to forget to disengage. Like it or not, situations change from shoot to no shoot. And whether you like it or not, clean shoot (and especially a not-so-clean shoot) will result in a lengthly lawsuit from hell. Maybe it's easier to bail when things become non-life threatening.
I carry only double action, decock firearms. This means hammer fired, with few exceptions. It's rare to find someone that prefers this, but I found that it lends itself to some serious benefits.
One thing I found does not exist, in my opinion, is 'two different trigger pulls'. I tend to think of it as one trigger pull, with one heck of a reset. A lot of people shoot for a reset anyway, which in effect does the same thing - a longer first pull to a much shorter second pull.
As far as accuracy? Well, double action I find no difference in making hits out to about 50 yards.
Reliability? Well, a lot of these order designs are military/service gun designs with some pretty setller credentials. Some of these designs have mean-rounds-between-failure counts that haven't been exceded by newer designs.
There will be more work to put in to get the benefits. But in my opinion, going back to older designs versus the new striker, pays multiple layers of benefits over striker guns and single action only guns. I also think that not many people have thought about their choice in this light, and I hope more people will have that honest discussion.
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From Ernest Langdon, arguably one of the best double/single shooters and instructors out there:
Fear not the double action shot, parts 1-3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsoX26OhDCY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZplH6zreQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nod5qLlSGUM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chris Baker, Luckygunner
Why I switched to a Double Action
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why- ... le-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Rise and Fall of the Double Action
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/rise ... semi-auto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Double actions are SLOOOOOW
NicTaylor00 - Beretta 92
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEBdXZKiLz0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ben Stoeger - Tangfolio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUTXOzhLFdk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--------------
Commentary like "I like xyz" without factual, non-emotion based logical responses or "should have bought abc" are counter productive, and I'd encourage that type of commentary to be avoided. It serves no purpose but to see yourself type.
--------------
I'd like to make a thread about double action/single action, and why it's still relevant in today's world of lighter and lighter striker fires (that are becoming more and more pre-tensioned, and essentially become single action sans safety, in my opinon). So why the hell do this, expecially with new shooters?
Well, for one, it's safer. The LENGTH of trigger travel keeps you out of trouble. It's also possible to apply light pressure to a decocked hammer while holstering, which will prevent a discharge in the event of foreign objects/fingers getting wedged in the holster. Seriously, it's neigh impossible to overcome that slight amount of pressure on the hammer with a lot of pressure on the trigger. Take a seriously close look at how people reholster, especially if that holster is anything besides 100% kydex - they likely flag themselves, or wedge the muzzle against their hip as a lever to get the pistol in the holster. While this is an equipment error, the addition of a decocked, double action introduces a huge layer of safety. This is a benefit that those that carry appendix tend to enjoy, and is why the Glock striker-control-device exists.
For two, they allow for a great trigger break. Try the single action of a Beretta 92 or any of the classic Sigs, and you'll find a trigger pull that puts striker guns to shame. If you want to put dollar to dollar for modifications, it's not too hard to spend 150-200 on M&P and Glocks to improve the trigger, and you can purchase a 'trigger job in a bag' for a beretta from Langton Tactical for the same price point that is drop in.
Three, they allow for the 'no safety/fumble' shooting, while providing time to think "does this situation still warrant a shot" and with no safety to exist, also means no safety to forget to disengage. Like it or not, situations change from shoot to no shoot. And whether you like it or not, clean shoot (and especially a not-so-clean shoot) will result in a lengthly lawsuit from hell. Maybe it's easier to bail when things become non-life threatening.
I carry only double action, decock firearms. This means hammer fired, with few exceptions. It's rare to find someone that prefers this, but I found that it lends itself to some serious benefits.
One thing I found does not exist, in my opinion, is 'two different trigger pulls'. I tend to think of it as one trigger pull, with one heck of a reset. A lot of people shoot for a reset anyway, which in effect does the same thing - a longer first pull to a much shorter second pull.
As far as accuracy? Well, double action I find no difference in making hits out to about 50 yards.
Reliability? Well, a lot of these order designs are military/service gun designs with some pretty setller credentials. Some of these designs have mean-rounds-between-failure counts that haven't been exceded by newer designs.
There will be more work to put in to get the benefits. But in my opinion, going back to older designs versus the new striker, pays multiple layers of benefits over striker guns and single action only guns. I also think that not many people have thought about their choice in this light, and I hope more people will have that honest discussion.
-----------------
From Ernest Langdon, arguably one of the best double/single shooters and instructors out there:
Fear not the double action shot, parts 1-3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsoX26OhDCY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZplH6zreQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nod5qLlSGUM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
------------------
Chris Baker, Luckygunner
Why I switched to a Double Action
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why- ... le-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Rise and Fall of the Double Action
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/rise ... semi-auto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
------------------
Double actions are SLOOOOOW
NicTaylor00 - Beretta 92
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEBdXZKiLz0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ben Stoeger - Tangfolio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUTXOzhLFdk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;