Multiple Handgun Purchase

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Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby MarkH » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:13 pm

I recently purchased two handguns from a local gun store and was surprised to hear that if more than one handgun is purchased, they are obligated to send a copy of the transaction to the local Police department. Is this normal?

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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:29 pm

Not normal.

Better question... Is it even legal?
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:42 pm

It is legal and in fact required. See https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fac ... -reporting
The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to report multiple sales or other dispositions of handguns to the same purchaser [18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)]. The sale or disposition of two or more handguns must be reported if they occur at the same time, or within five consecutive business days of each other.

18 USC 923(g)(3)(A) states:
Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totalling two or more, to an unlicensed person. The report shall be prepared on a form specified by the Attorney General and forwarded to the office specified thereon and to the department of State police or State law enforcement agency of the State or local law enforcement agency of the local jurisdiction in which the sale or other disposition took place, not later than the close of business on the day that the multiple sale or other disposition occurs.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:14 pm

Interesting, did not know this. Only reporting requirements I recalled was for rifles in the border states of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas.

So, in Ohio this form goes to local or state level?

DontTreadOnMe wrote:It is legal and in fact required. See https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fac ... -reporting
The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to report multiple sales or other dispositions of handguns to the same purchaser [18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)]. The sale or disposition of two or more handguns must be reported if they occur at the same time, or within five consecutive business days of each other.

18 USC 923(g)(3)(A) states:
Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totalling two or more, to an unlicensed person. The report shall be prepared on a form specified by the Attorney General and forwarded to the office specified thereon and to the department of State police or State law enforcement agency of the State or local law enforcement agency of the local jurisdiction in which the sale or other disposition took place, not later than the close of business on the day that the multiple sale or other disposition occurs.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby djthomas » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:00 pm

WY_Not wrote:So, in Ohio this form goes to local or state level?

Considering that Ohio doesn't have a state police or state law enforcement agency that pretty much leaves you with "local." Keep in mind it goes to the authorities where the transfer takes place, not necessarily the receiver's residence.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:31 pm

Didn't know if perhaps it was supposed to go to the OAG or something and the local was overstepping.

Interesting that this is allowed yet when Cleveland and others try to say that owners must register they get smacked down.

djthomas wrote:
WY_Not wrote:So, in Ohio this form goes to local or state level?

Considering that Ohio doesn't have a state police or state law enforcement agency that pretty much leaves you with "local." Keep in mind it goes to the authorities where the transfer takes place, not necessarily the receiver's residence.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby JediSkipdogg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:28 pm

WY_Not wrote:Didn't know if perhaps it was supposed to go to the OAG or something and the local was overstepping.

Interesting that this is allowed yet when Cleveland and others try to say that owners must register they get smacked down.

djthomas wrote:
WY_Not wrote:So, in Ohio this form goes to local or state level?

Considering that Ohio doesn't have a state police or state law enforcement agency that pretty much leaves you with "local." Keep in mind it goes to the authorities where the transfer takes place, not necessarily the receiver's residence.


Federal vs state laws. Cleveland must comply with 9.68. FFLs must comply with ATF regulations and laws.

We get the form all the time at my department. The Monday after Black Friday I think we had received 50 of them. Of course, Point Blank was doing S&W Bodyguard 380 for $250 and a Remington RM380 for $100. So people bought those in bulk.

Here is the form...

https://www.atf.gov/file/61426/download

Pretty standard easy form left on file with the FFLs local law enforcement to do what they want with. Can't say what we do with them beside file them away. I'm sure some places create a database for them.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby JimE » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:46 pm

That has been in place on a Federal level, I believe since the GCA of '68.
Paperwork is sent to the CLEO where you live, and if there are "issues", you may get a visit from the po-po.
I have had those filled out on me in the 80's and 90's, never heard a peep from anyone.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:43 pm

So, a law that does nothing but generate useless paperwork? If a person was up to no good and worried about it they'd simply go to multiple stores.

Edit to add... Thanks for answering the questions guys.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby JimE » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:07 pm

WY_Not wrote:So, a law that does nothing but generate useless paperwork? If a person was up to no good and worried about it they'd simply go to multiple stores.

Edit to add... Thanks for answering the questions guys.

May not be totally useless, but is a pita for dealers, collectors, or gift givers.
Many moons ago, (and I hope my memory is correct), The Imperial Wizard of the Ohio Klan lived in the West Salem/Lodi area. His repeated purchases of multiple handguns,(cheap derringers I think) got the attention of someone. I think he was convicted on straw purchase charges. That was in the early~mid 80's ?.
Prior to the Brady mishap, you could spread purchases around, no one would know.
With NICS retaining purchase info for what, 3 days(?)..not sure if you could pull that off or not.
Of course, if you just bought 10 HiPoints, you could tell them each of your rowboats needed a anchor. :lol:
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby JediSkipdogg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:18 pm

JimE wrote:
WY_Not wrote:So, a law that does nothing but generate useless paperwork? If a person was up to no good and worried about it they'd simply go to multiple stores.

Edit to add... Thanks for answering the questions guys.

May not be totally useless, but is a pita for dealers, collectors, or gift givers.
Many moons ago, (and I hope my memory is correct), The Imperial Wizard of the Ohio Klan lived in the West Salem/Lodi area. His repeated purchases of multiple handguns,(cheap derringers I think) got the attention of someone. I think he was convicted on straw purchase charges. That was in the early~mid 80's ?.
Prior to the Brady mishap, you could spread purchases around, no one would know.
With NICS retaining purchase info for what, 3 days(?)..not sure if you could pull that off or not.
Of course, if you just bought 10 HiPoints, you could tell them each of your rowboats needed a anchor. :lol:


Well, back in the day FFLs were probably few and far between. I would venture it could be a good 30-60 minute drive for one so buying multiple from the same FFL at the same time was more common than today.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:53 am

Still the quantity of 2 is a bit absurd. If the number was a bit higher, I could see it being somewhat helpful in catching those with bad intentions. But 2? I generally buy in pairs when I can; one for me and one for the wife or as a spare. Hardly something that needs to be reported to the local LEO. And while I have no intentions of doing bad things with my firearms, having learned this then I will gladly go to two different sources for future purchases just to thumb my nose at the absurdity of this regulation.

Perhaps we should start requiring groceries to report to the local LEO whenever someone buys two cases of beer or two cases of sugary soft drink or two packs of bacon (all legal products, legal to purchase, and legal to possess). :mrgreen:

JediSkipdogg wrote:
JimE wrote:
WY_Not wrote:So, a law that does nothing but generate useless paperwork? If a person was up to no good and worried about it they'd simply go to multiple stores.

Edit to add... Thanks for answering the questions guys.

May not be totally useless, but is a pita for dealers, collectors, or gift givers.
Many moons ago, (and I hope my memory is correct), The Imperial Wizard of the Ohio Klan lived in the West Salem/Lodi area. His repeated purchases of multiple handguns,(cheap derringers I think) got the attention of someone. I think he was convicted on straw purchase charges. That was in the early~mid 80's ?.
Prior to the Brady mishap, you could spread purchases around, no one would know.
With NICS retaining purchase info for what, 3 days(?)..not sure if you could pull that off or not.
Of course, if you just bought 10 HiPoints, you could tell them each of your rowboats needed a anchor. :lol:


Well, back in the day FFLs were probably few and far between. I would venture it could be a good 30-60 minute drive for one so buying multiple from the same FFL at the same time was more common than today.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:14 pm

WY_Not wrote:Still the quantity of 2 is a bit absurd. If the number was a bit higher, I could see it being somewhat helpful in catching those with bad intentions. But 2? I generally buy in pairs when I can; one for me and one for the wife or as a spare. Hardly something that needs to be reported to the local LEO. And while I have no intentions of doing bad things with my firearms, having learned this then I will gladly go to two different sources for future purchases just to thumb my nose at the absurdity of this regulation.

Perhaps we should start requiring groceries to report to the local LEO whenever someone buys two cases of beer or two cases of sugary soft drink or two packs of bacon (all legal products, legal to purchase, and legal to possess). :mrgreen:


Keep in mind, it's a 1968 rule that has been unchanged/unupdated. I doubt many in 1968 were buying their wives firearms at the same time they bought one themselves or buying a backup.

Imagine if the NFA was updated for inflation. Sure, in 1934, $200 was a huge amount of money for a tax stamp and generally more than the cost of any firearm. Today, for many gun owners that is pocket change. Adjust for inflation and in December of 2017 that would be $3,679.46 for the same tax stamp. That would definitely change those thinking of buying suppressors or making SBRs.

Times have changed and the laws were written in a static form that unfortunately there are not enough votes or interest in changing.
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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby WY_Not » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:42 pm

And that is why EVERY law enacted should have a sunset clause. If it is still valid 5 years later then getting the votes to reauthorize shouldn't be a problem.

Even in 1968 , 2 was (and still is) an absurd number. Like I said if it were something reasonable, I might be able to understand it.

And the comparison of fees to quantities is apples to oranges. One is a fee by which gov takes money from a citizen for which no actual product, goods, or services are provided. The other is a random number at which point one law abiding citizen is forced to snitch out another law abiding citizen.

JediSkipdogg wrote:
WY_Not wrote:Still the quantity of 2 is a bit absurd. If the number was a bit higher, I could see it being somewhat helpful in catching those with bad intentions. But 2? I generally buy in pairs when I can; one for me and one for the wife or as a spare. Hardly something that needs to be reported to the local LEO. And while I have no intentions of doing bad things with my firearms, having learned this then I will gladly go to two different sources for future purchases just to thumb my nose at the absurdity of this regulation.

Perhaps we should start requiring groceries to report to the local LEO whenever someone buys two cases of beer or two cases of sugary soft drink or two packs of bacon (all legal products, legal to purchase, and legal to possess). :mrgreen:


Keep in mind, it's a 1968 rule that has been unchanged/unupdated. I doubt many in 1968 were buying their wives firearms at the same time they bought one themselves or buying a backup.

Imagine if the NFA was updated for inflation. Sure, in 1934, $200 was a huge amount of money for a tax stamp and generally more than the cost of any firearm. Today, for many gun owners that is pocket change. Adjust for inflation and in December of 2017 that would be $3,679.46 for the same tax stamp. That would definitely change those thinking of buying suppressors or making SBRs.

Times have changed and the laws were written in a static form that unfortunately there are not enough votes or interest in changing.
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.

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Re: Multiple Handgun Purchase

Postby willbird » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:04 am

One thing the form DOES do is stop a dealer from going back and ADDING handguns to an existing 4473.

Friend bought a gun at a gunshow one month, went back next month, the guy ADDED that gun to the prior 4473 and must have entered the earlier data in his bound book. There is room to write in 3 total and that dealer presumed he could only add 2 more...but in reality you can add as many sheets as need be, an infinite number of guns can go on ONE 4473/NICS.

Must have been pre Brady/NICS ??

But with the CCW in lieu of NICS I suppose that issue could crop up again.

For SURE something I would never have considered when I had my FFL, but I DID see it happen.

Also the FFL actually does not have to even tell the buyer about the multiple sales form, some dealers act as if it is some big deal, really it is not.

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