No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 am

Glock Rock wrote:
ORC 2923.11(F): ""Sawed-off firearm" means a shotgun with a barrel less than eighteen inches long, or a rifle with a barrel less than sixteen inches long, or a shotgun or rifle less than twenty-six inches long overall."


A few months on anyone get charged with a felony yet? Without a law change we need some case law.

Not that I know of, but one of the substitute bills in the House has a fix but I can't remember off the top of my head which one. And, no idea if it will get anywhere especially in the current political climate.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby Qfac » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:15 am

I know this is still a question mark out there, but I think it hinges on the wording of a sawed off “shotgun” - these shockwaves were never “shotguns” and were manufactured at the factory as a Firearm and this has been confirmed by ATF’s review.

What are the opinions of the legal folks on here?
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 am

Qfac wrote:I know this is still a question mark out there, but I think it hinges on the wording of a sawed off “shotgun” - these shockwaves were never “shotguns” and were manufactured at the factory as a Firearm and this has been confirmed by ATF’s review.

What are the opinions of the legal folks on here?

I'm not a "legal person" and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but the ATF's definition of "firearm" and "shotgun" doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to Ohio law. Ohio law doesn't define a shotgun as far as I can tell, so it is possible that the ATF's very specific definition of a shotgun might be used in court if a case like this were to ever make it there - or it might not. It's a shaky piece of ground to stand on, for sure.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:17 pm

Plus it shares a model number with other firearms from that manufacturer described as shotguns, and the manual for it is listed online on the manufacturer's website under 'shotguns' (http://www.mossberg.com/service/owners-manuals/). In that manual, which is specific to the shockwave, they specifically describe the serialized part as the "shotgun receiver".

Just my opinion but I think it'd be very easy to convince a jury that it's a shotgun.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JimE » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:23 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:Plus it shares a model number with other firearms from that manufacturer described as shotguns, and the manual for it is listed online on the manufacturer's website under 'shotguns' (http://www.mossberg.com/service/owners-manuals/). In that manual, which is specific to the shockwave, they specifically describe the serialized part as the "shotgun receiver".

Just my opinion but I think it'd be very easy to convince a jury that it's a shotgun.


Bingo.
I'm no legal eagle either, but the fact that it takes shotgun ammo, is a smooth bore, a nasty da could make life rough in front of a jury full of suburbanites and soccer moms.
If it took some other ammo, and had a rifled bore, (Taurus Judge, Bond Snake Slayer, etc.) you might be out of the woods. But I doubt the arms companies are going to make such a critter in .45Colt/.410 for just Ohio and a couple of others.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby Glock Rock » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:56 pm

I spoke with three local dealers today I found selling these less than 26” smoothe bore armaments today.

One highly reputable decades in business dealer told me don’t believe the internet (BFA) take. Cited the tool’s compliance with fed law even after I questioned the relevance of that to my state law related query. He appeared to be relying upon the fact that his reputable dealer’s source shipping the tools to him is good proof of their legitimacy in Ohio. Selling them as “other” on the 4473.

One class III dealer is selling them as a pistol but only with a “destructive device” state form. I am not familiar with this concept. While nice he appeared to be a gun store talker if you know what I mean.

One class III dealer is selling them, but I got the impression that he realizes it’s a grey area. He has a letter to the AG awaiting a response for clarity. Relying on the federal interpretation for now. Selling as “other” on 4473.

All were asking $400 or so.

I didn’t buy one for my collection.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby djthomas » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:10 pm

Glock Rock wrote:One class III dealer is selling them as a pistol but only with a “destructive device” state form. I am not familiar with this concept. While nice he appeared to be a gun store talker if you know what I mean.

Talker or not he's the one I'd be most comfortable buying from if I were so inclined to acquire one. What he's likely referring to is requiring buyers to get an Ohio license to possess or use dangerous ordnance through either their local sheriff or police chief. It's $50 and somewhere between may issue and shall issue.

As to the guy with a letter in to the AG, he'll be waiting a while. At best he'll get a form letter back thanking him for his inquiry and directing him to seek private legal counsel.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby BEAR! » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:24 pm

djthomas wrote:
Glock Rock wrote:One class III dealer is selling them as a pistol but only with a “destructive device” state form. I am not familiar with this concept. While nice he appeared to be a gun store talker if you know what I mean.

Talker or not he's the one I'd be most comfortable buying from if I were so inclined to acquire one. What he's likely referring to is requiring buyers to get an Ohio license to possess or use dangerous ordnance through either their local sheriff or police chief. It's $50 and somewhere between may issue and shall issue.

As to the guy with a letter in to the AG, he'll be waiting a while. At best he'll get a form letter back thanking him for his inquiry and directing him to seek private legal counsel.


Yeah Mike Dewhine is too busy solving the Pike County murders where 8 people were killed in one night. :roll:

It's only been 2 years, he's all over it. :roll:

He's so good he should be our next governor. :P
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby Brzezi » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:17 am

I live in KY, I purchased a Mossberg 590 Shockwave in my state where it is legal to own. Is it legal for me to take it with me to my grandparents farm in Ohio considering residents in Ohio aren't able to own it?
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby steves 50de » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:35 pm

Brzezi wrote:I live in KY, I purchased a Mossberg 590 Shockwave in my state where it is legal to own. Is it legal for me to take it with me to my grandparents farm in Ohio considering residents in Ohio aren't able to own it?

I think you need a dangerous ordnance permit in Ohio.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby Brian D. » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:15 pm

The Point Blank store/range in Florence KY. has both a Shockwave and the Remington equivalent for sale among their used guns. A manager I know there stated that they'd greatly hesitate to sell to an Ohio resident, because of the whole legal gray area. In the past I've found his knowledge of firearms laws to be on point.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JustaShooter » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:17 pm

steves 50de wrote:
Brzezi wrote:I live in KY, I purchased a Mossberg 590 Shockwave in my state where it is legal to own. Is it legal for me to take it with me to my grandparents farm in Ohio considering residents in Ohio aren't able to own it?

I think you need a dangerous ordnance permit in Ohio.

That's my understanding as well.

To the OP, it isn't that Ohio residents aren't able to own them, it's that you cannot possess them in Ohio without a dangerous ordnance license, resident or not.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JimE » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:37 pm

Brian D. wrote:The Point Blank store/range in Florence KY. has both a Shockwave and the Remington equivalent for sale among their used guns. A manager I know there stated that they'd greatly hesitate to sell to an Ohio resident, because of the whole legal gray area. In the past I've found his knowledge of firearms laws to be on point.


Since it is classed by ATF as "other firearm", I do not believe an Ohio resident can purchase one out of state.
Reg's state that only "longguns", i.e. rifles and shotguns can be transferred to an out-of state resident, same as AR lowers.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby marca » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:41 am

It has not been settled whether or not it is legal in Ohio. Many Ohio gun stores sell them. If you want to be very cautious, then leave it home. Otherwise, take it and shoot it on your family's property and have a good time. Who is going to know anyway?
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby djthomas » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:10 am

JimE wrote:Reg's state that only "longguns", i.e. rifles and shotguns can be transferred to an out-of state resident, same as AR lowers.

To be precise, both the GCA and the regs specifically say "rifle or shotgun" when referring to what an out-of-state resident can purchase from an FFL. The term long gun doesn't appear anywhere.
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