No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby FormerNavy » Fri May 26, 2017 9:01 am

Maybe it's legal in Ohio, maybe it's not...

The real issue is, how much will it cost you to defend yourself and prove it was legal? I have got to believe that the average police officer in this state is going to take one look at that thing and believe it's a sawed off shotgun, and act accordingly. He/she is not going to be interested in trying to figure out the nuances of "is it or isn't it" or NFA/GCA law, etc... You'll get arrested and they will let the prosecutor figure out whether it meets the technical definition. That's what I think, and because of that I won't be getting one... even though I'd really like one. :D
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby djthomas » Fri May 26, 2017 10:33 am

^^ Yeah, and since unlicensed possession of dangerous ordnance is a felony it will go to a grand jury for indictment. If half of a group of firearms enthusiasts such as this think it's a sawed off shotgun under Ohio law how do you think the average member of the public is going to see it? Hint, it ends in the words "True Bill."
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby evan price » Fri May 26, 2017 11:50 am

Iirc anything over 0.50" bore is a DD per ATF, isn't it?
That's the reason why the Taurus 28-ga Raging Judge they had at SHOT show a couple years ago wasnt being produced was what i heard. Also why the Boys Antitank Rifle has to be converted to 50bmg.
But I'm not an expert.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby djthomas » Fri May 26, 2017 12:37 pm

evan price wrote:Iirc anything over 0.50" bore is a DD per ATF, isn't it?

Per the NFA actually and there is an exception if it's a shotgun or shotgun shell which the AG finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JustaShooter » Fri May 26, 2017 3:33 pm

WY_Not wrote:So, put the absolute bare minimum depth rifling in the barrels and make the twist rate negligible? Or is there a barrel diameter restriction in there somewhere also?

Six Shooter wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:Six Shooter, everyone agrees it's not an NFA firearm. The ATF said as much and that's not in question.


End of story.

WY_Not wrote:Why classify it as a "firearm"? If being built on a "virgin" receiver with a pistol grip, why not classify it as a pistol?


If the barrel had rifling, it would be classified as a handgun.


Ohio law doesn't require rifling for it to be classified a handgun. Ohio law defines handgun in http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.11 as:

(C) "Handgun" means any of the following:

(1) Any firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;

(2) Any combination of parts from which a firearm of a type described in division (C)(1) of this section can be assembled.


So, is the shockwave "designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand"?
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby glocksmith » Fri May 26, 2017 4:04 pm

Dunno why I'm getting involved in this cluster++++ of a situation which hasn't gotten any clearer...but I would like to say a "sawed off shotgun" is precisely that. A shotgun which you intentionally and illegally modified by cutting it down yourself to a length below the legal minimum. It's hard to see how the cops are going to charge you with possession of a sawed off shotgun when it was manufactured that way with BATFE approval and legally sold to you by an FFL licensed dealer. It sounds painfully simple, I know, but it is not a "sawed off" shotgun if it never came into contact with a saw or other cutting device. If you want one buy one. Believe me, there are people who have done exactly that. If you are afraid to buy one...then simply don't buy one...but don't try to discourage others from buying one. No need for all the hoopla. :?
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby FormerNavy » Fri May 26, 2017 4:37 pm

glocksmith wrote:Dunno why I'm getting involved in this cluster++++ of a situation which hasn't gotten any clearer...but I would like to say a "sawed off shotgun" is precisely that. A shotgun which you intentionally and illegally modified by cutting it down yourself to a length below the legal minimum. It's hard to see how the cops are going to charge you with possession of a sawed off shotgun when it was manufactured that way with BATFE approval and legally sold to you by an FFL licensed dealer. It sounds painfully simple, I know, but it is not a "sawed off" shotgun if it never came into contact with a saw or other cutting device. If you want one buy one. Believe me, there are people who have done exactly that. If you are afraid to buy one...then simply don't buy one...but don't try to discourage others from buying one. No need for all the hoopla. :?


With respect, this is where you are mistaken... you are injecting common sense into the legal realm, which rarely applies any common sense. A sawed off shotgun is what the law says it is. In Ohio the law says this:

ORC 2923.11(F): ""Sawed-off firearm" means a shotgun with a barrel less than eighteen inches long, or a rifle with a barrel less than sixteen inches long, or a shotgun or rifle less than twenty-six inches long overall."

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. The above definition is stupid. I'd like to have one myself. But I choose not to get one because I believe a police officer will not be interested in the intricacies - he/she will simply see short shotgun and call it a day. Others may very well choose to get one and they certainly can do that, and I wish them well.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby glocksmith » Fri May 26, 2017 5:32 pm

FormerNavy wrote:I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. The above definition is stupid. I'd like to have one myself. But I choose not to get one because I believe a police officer will not be interested in the intricacies - he/she will simply see short shotgun and call it a day. Others may very well choose to get one and they certainly can do that, and I wish them well.


I can understand that. I once had a cop at the shooting range question me about some (perfectly legal) bullets I had because they looked pointy... like they might poke through a vest. Like I said above, if people are uncomfortable with owning one...then its not worth it. I myself do not want one...because of practical reasons. I watched some Youtube vids of people shooting these...along with the "Chainsaw 12 GA." and the way the shooter has to hold and aim them looks quite awkward.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby djthomas » Fri May 26, 2017 7:14 pm

It's one thing to not care what law enforcement will think when the law is clearly on your side. It's another thing when at best there is some ambiguity and the penalty for guessing wrong is a felony charge.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby evan price » Fri May 26, 2017 7:23 pm

djthomas wrote:
evan price wrote:Iirc anything over 0.50" bore is a DD per ATF, isn't it?

Per the NFA actually and there is an exception if it's a shotgun or shotgun shell which the AG finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.

That's how I recall too. I also recall that rifling the barrel means it isn't a shotgun .. And with that we are right back full circle on stupidly worded laws.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby glocksmith » Fri May 26, 2017 7:46 pm

djthomas wrote:It's one thing to not care what law enforcement will think when the law is clearly on your side. It's another thing when at best there is some ambiguity and the penalty for guessing wrong is a felony charge.


I get what you are saying and I suppose that's one way to look at it. But IMHO the burden should be on the criminal justice system - and not the citizen - to be clear on what is legal or illegal. The law needs to be yes or no, black or white.The Hell with the "ambiguity" you mentioned. I personally don't care to allow law enforcement the ability to have differing interpretations of the law nor the flexibility to make mistakes at a citizens expense.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby glocksmith » Fri May 26, 2017 7:50 pm

evan price wrote:
djthomas wrote:
evan price wrote:Iirc anything over 0.50" bore is a DD per ATF, isn't it?

Per the NFA actually and there is an exception if it's a shotgun or shotgun shell which the AG finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.

That's how I recall too. I also recall that rifling the barrel means it isn't a shotgun .. And with that we are right back full circle on stupidly worded laws.


There are plenty of .510 bore firearms out there. The .500 Linebaugh chambered revolvers are one example...and I believe the .50 Alaskan is another which quite a few guns chamber. There are others like the .500 maximum with a .512 bore. Then you get into the confusing topic of whether a bore is measured by the groove diameter or the lands :lol:
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby JimE » Fri May 26, 2017 8:09 pm

Does anyone remember the "Street Sweeper" shotgun?
IIRC, Secretary Benson used a missing comma in the law (GCA or NFA I do not recall which) to declare it a "Destructive Device" under Federal Law. The NRA was very concerned that the Clinton administration would do the same to the majority of (12ga) shotguns in circulation.
Vague and confusing laws only benefit the government, not the people.
We need a fix, but considering how few of these have been, or will be sold, I doubt that anything will really happen. It only took 40 years to get rid of the magazine restrictions.
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby Six Shooter » Fri May 26, 2017 8:17 pm

glocksmith wrote:Dunno why I'm getting involved in this cluster++++ of a situation which hasn't gotten any clearer...but I would like to say a "sawed off shotgun" is precisely that. A shotgun which you intentionally and illegally modified by cutting it down yourself to a length below the legal minimum. It's hard to see how the cops are going to charge you with possession of a sawed off shotgun when it was manufactured that way with BATFE approval and legally sold to you by an FFL licensed dealer. It sounds painfully simple, I know, but it is not a "sawed off" shotgun if it never came into contact with a saw or other cutting device. If you want one buy one. Believe me, there are people who have done exactly that. If you are afraid to buy one...then simply don't buy one...but don't try to discourage others from buying one. No need for all the hoopla. :?



People keep referring to it as a "shotgun".

It clearly is not.... As defined by the BATFE.


It transfers on a 4473 as a firearm.

You must be 21 to purchase it, in the state you live.

(not 18, as if it were a shotgun)


As I previously stated;

I feel I have performed my "due diligence" before purchase, with advice from several different Class 3 FFL holders.


And to top that off....

The State of Ohio accepted the sales tax. :wink:
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Re: No Mossberg shockwave for Ohio?

Postby steves 50de » Sat May 27, 2017 9:00 pm

What is funny is BATF would more than likely not approve a SBS stamp for this so an Ohio resident could cover his butt.
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