First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

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Brian D.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by Brian D. »

I left out a detail about my model 637: At one time I used the services of a local S&W certified armorer/gun smith a whole bunch. I had him get me a 9mm cylinder for it from the factory. (They were made for the all steel model 940 some years back.) Slowly, carefully fitted that cylinder to my 637. It was oversize in several dimensions, that's not an easy task and honestly I wouldn't do it again. Whimsically, when it's got the 9mm cylinder installed, I refer to it as a model 937, which of course doesn't exist. Due to the alloy frame only mildish hand loads get run through it for practice. It has been proof tested with like 10 rounds of defensive stuff.

Anyhow, in that configuration it uses moon clips, so ejection with the short rod, no problem. For what it's worth, S&W has produced some model 642s in .38 special that utilize moon clips. I would imagine that gives more positive ejection than those without the clips. However (sorry for more blithering) not all .38 special ammo fits into the clips.

Hope I haven't lost, confused, bored, or annoyed you with these info dumps, jeep.
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Mr. Glock
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by Mr. Glock »

If the 442 felt good and carried well, you should buy it. Pocket pistols are so personal, once you find what seems to work, jump on it and ring it out to test your system.

S&W puts the 642 on sale at least once a year, at $349 usually. But that Vances price is good too. And 642s come without that infernal on-board lock.

I vote the 642 over the 442 only due to the more durable materials in terms of corrosion from what I've read from seaside folks. Frankly, I like both.

The lock probably won't engage on its own in a 642/442, but it does in the Ti/Scadium stuff, now and then. Uhmmm, not what I want to worry about.

Speaking of which, having owned a Scandium/Ti Smith (pre-lock), we are getting to the level of lightness where you need to carry really good ammo because the 5 rounds are the heaviest part of the gun and tend to jump the crimp. That little metal insert above the barrel, yep, flame-cutting. Plus, 2x expensive as the 642 for the same model in Scandium/Titanium cylinder. J- Frames are already hard to work with, why try a 357 Mag that is the same weight as the Ruger LCP?


Sometimes you can get too light. If you want to actually train with the gun, get a 642/442. Oh, and some speed loaders.
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SMMAssociates
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by SMMAssociates »

Jumping in with non-information :D....

Plain old stainless steel ought to do what's needed..

Unless you really can't live with a longer barrel, a 2.5" or 3" barrel will pay some dividends. (The hardest thing to conceal is the cylinder and the grip. Cylinder optional if it's a semi-auto :) .)

+P, +P+, and magnum loads in 9mm and larger, are really just bragging rights most of the time. Winter clothing may need a bit more help.

Avoid the ultra-lights - scandium, for example. Lots of "where the hell did my hand go". You may get off a first shot, but forget about a follow-up. (That's what I like about the "4x" calibers. If you hit someone, they'll likely be seriously inclined to cooperate.)

DA guns generally work that way unless you really practice. DA/SA gives you a little more help. However, it's very important that anything you choose to carry should work more or less exactly as anything else you plan on carrying. If your EDC has a thumb safety, but your backup (or run-around-half-naked) gun hasn't got one, you probably can live with it. What you can't live with is one where the thumb safety works backwards. It's easy to try to swipe off a safety that's not there. Very hard to try to swipe one off "the other way"....

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jeep45238
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by jeep45238 »

Any thoughts on sku 178041? It's a 442 cut for moonclips, and with street price and the $30 rebate makes it about the same as a standard 443. I'm thinking reload with a safariland, moon clips for the first firing and consistent ejection. Or am I off base on this one?
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DontTreadOnMe
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

jeep45238 wrote:Any thoughts on sku 178041? It's a 442 cut for moonclips, and with street price and the $30 rebate makes it about the same as a standard 443. I'm thinking reload with a safariland, moon clips for the first firing and consistent ejection. Or am I off base on this one?
You're exactly right. Because of the cartridge length moonclips don't give you much if anything over a speedloader when loading, but pretty much eliminate the possibility of a casing getting hung up beneath the ejector star on the way out.

Also, good call on the Safariland speedloader.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by Brian D. »

I like moon clips. They're fast. Look online, some slick belt carriers are made for them. Here's a Brian D. cheat code on that: Get a belt slide with six or more .38 caliber loops. (The belt slide is more of a rifle shooter's gizmo.) Anyhow, use two loops for each moon clip, the rounds should stay put if you're not prone to doing spontaneous somersaults and such.

Down side to moons? In .38 special, some ammo doesn't have enough groove below the cartridge rim to accommodate the clips. They can be a pain to load/unload without a gadget made to help with the task. The clips can get bent and you have to keep an eye out for that.

A smart aleck once told me that someone carrying a j-frame and two speed loaders/moon clips was his definition of a cockeyed optimist. Don't let the wheel gun haters get ya down! :mrgreen:
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jeep45238
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by jeep45238 »

I'm a bit concerned about a moon clip getting bent or somehow damaged and keeping the cylinder from turning, hence reluctant for reloads. Maybe they'll fit in an old film canister or something like that to keep it protected.

But for administrative handling and positive ejection I'm leaning towards a moon clip model. Plus the 442 Moon Clip version is from the SW Pro series, which is a bit of a plus.
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Brian D.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by Brian D. »

I handled two of the model 442's set up for moon clips. As you note they are part of the Pro Series line. One had a smoother-than-normal action. The other one..meh, rough innards, apparently. And that was dry firing without a clip inserted. Probably nothing a little polishing couldn't fix, but it shouldn't have escaped the Pro Series end of the factory like that.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by glocksmith »

Jeep - I know it is not even on your short list but the Ruger SP101 snubbie is a mighty fine CC revolver. A family member of mine carries one...and if I could do it all over again, I think I would get myself one. Can be carried in a pocket using a Desantis "Terminator" or an Urban Carry holster. You can even have it cut out for moon clips...I believe Gemini Customs does this service. JMHO.
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jeep45238
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by jeep45238 »

Yes, and they're coming in at 25+ ounces compared to the 13 or so for an alloy J - never mind gun smithing service to cut for moon clips if I go that path is going to add another 150+ compared to $30 from SW factory.

While I typically don't care about weight of a firearm at all (I carry a Beretta 92G....not many larger semis out there), for this one's purpose weight is key.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by glocksmith »

Gotcha. As for me, I'm carrying an N-Frame snub which is quite large and heavy...and like I said before...if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it differently.

It seems that the quest for the perfect carry gun is never ending. What's cool today...ends up sucking tomorrow :?
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by glocksmith »

Brian D. wrote:Down side to moons? They can be a pain to load/unload without a gadget made to help with the task.
That's exactly my problem right now. Three moon clips came with my new S&W..so I've got one still loaded with live ammo and the other two are filled with empties. Anybody have any tips on how to get the empty cases out without the use of special tools? I know I need to get the tools and buy some additional clips as well...but recent financial hardships have made that impossible anytime soon :(
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jeep45238
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by jeep45238 »

Do you have any sockets that could fit inside the case, or a socket that could fit over the cases? That with an extension in the socket should give plenty of leverage to move them out.

I'm not too worried about what's cool/old/new/hot....I've carried Kahr T40s, Hi Powers, 1911's, Taurus PT111, Beretta 92, Glock 34/23/19, KelTec P3AT, CZ40B in various calipers. They all presented a lesson in some fashion.

That said I'm not going to abandon the traditional double action semi auto, I think focusing on that will give huge dividends at the end in marksmanship skill. But for the (many it seems) times where they won't work for whatever reason, sticking with a double action revolver that weighs in at less than a pound - that offers a lot more flexibility for being carried. The Beretta is dedicated hip carry, and due to it's length and my body build, appendix probably isn't going to happen.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by BadCrosshairDay »

One more thing that could be worth considering - the 442 that I usually see in stores has an internal lock. I was able to get a no-lock 442 through an FFL that put an order for one in. Not sure why that's not the "default" model that they keep in stock as opposed to the one with the internal lock.
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Re: First revolver - head's spinning with model numbers

Post by glocksmith »

jeep45238 wrote:Do you have any sockets that could fit inside the case, or a socket that could fit over the cases? That with an extension in the socket should give plenty of leverage to move them out.
I dunno. I thought about finding a wood dowel or maybe a small diameter pipe which would fit through the center of the moon clip...then I could pry the cases loose by inserting a rod into the case and prying outwards. They are fairly easy to get into the moonclip, but a real booger to pull back out. I'm sure I can extract them...but the trick is to do it without bending the thin steel of the moon clip.
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