If cost is no object - .357SIG opinions

[Morne]

Was discussing .357SIG versus 9x19mm & .40S&W recently and it seemed like almost every objection to it was based on money. Obviously, factory ammo is cheaper for 9&40. Reloaders don't have the practice ammo cost worry that others do. So let's remove that from the equation.

...and no, it doesn't matter that the case is bottlenecked. If I can reload .223 and .300BLK then I can reload .357SIG...

Certainly, 9x19mm has slightly more ammo per magazine than .357SIG. The capacity on .40S&W is identical to .357SIG. We're talking 2-3 rounds difference in conventional double-stack mags between 9 and .40/.357.

While I FULLY recognize that additional speed isn't everything, and I really prefer heavier bullets where .357SIG has traditionally not been available, there is now a Hornady XTP JHP 147-gr offering that seems promising. I think most folks will admit that in the 9x19mm the 147-gr flavors typically are among the best performers. The question then boils down to, "Are you willing to take 2-3 rounds less in the mag for the 200-ish fps increase in muzzle velocity?"

[Mr. Glock]

Speer Gold Dot 125 gr 357 Sig chrono 1400 fps from a Glock 32 (i.e. 19 size) and 1350 fps from a Glock 33 (i.e. G26 size).

[Morne]

Speer Gold Dot 125 gr 357 Sig chrono 1400 fps from a Glock 32 (i.e. 19 size) and 1350 fps from a Glock 33 (i.e. G26 size).

Relevant, since I personally favor the 124-127 grain offerings in 9x19mm.

Still, it seems like all the tacticool kids hug the 147-gr stuff these days...

[Mr. Glock]

Speer Gold Dot 125 gr 357 Sig chrono 1400 fps from a Glock 32 (i.e. 19 size) and 1350 fps from a Glock 33 (i.e. G26 size).

Relevant, since I personally favor the 124-127 grain offerings in 9x19mm.

Still, it seems like all the tacticool kids hug the 147-gr stuff these days...

Depends where you look, I guess. In 9, the 115 gr Cor Bon DPX + P has a following, and the 124-127 Speer Gold Dots / Fed HSTs / Win Ranger seem strong as well.

Let us recall that the 125 gr was the load the 357 Mag really made its fight stopper reputation on, and was the model for the Sig version. Not a bad model.

S&B originally had a 140 gr load for it, but long gone now (and was FMJ).

[dl1911]

First tried 357SIG with a conversion barrel in a Glock G23 and liked it. Have been shooting a SIG P226 the past few years and very happy with it. Hoping to get a P229 by the end of the year but will see how finances work out. I've been using the 125gr Speer Gold Dot for carry but otherwise have been shooting reloads. Usually with xTreme 124gr FP for 9mm with 8.0gr of BE-86. 1350fps, 502ft/lbs, 167PF. Do wish I could use it for major in USPSA but only shoot production and limited. No advantage at all in IDPA but I usually do fairly well with it. 2nd of 12 in SSP/MM at a match today shooting against 9mms. Brass can be a little more difficult to find, but not impossible. If you go to any of the local gun shows, Grindell Sales will bring it if you let them know ahead of time. Otherwise Brass Exchange and Southern Belle Brass sometimes have it. Haven't had much luck with many 9mm bullets. The xTreme seem to work well at a good price point. First loaded Zeros until I tried the xTreme. No problem with Berry's 115 & 124gr FP but can't push them as much. 124/125gr with the BE-86 comes very close to the Speer 125gr Gold Dots so very good for practice. As with most guns and calibers, more accurate than I am! Will probably stay with the 124/125gr since that's what the caliber was pretty much designed around. the 125gr 357 Magnum JHP was one of the most effective rounds used by LE. SIG set out to duplicate that load, and only that load, and from all I've seen have done a very good job of it (Speer's 357Magnum gold dot is 1450fps). Won't get 357 Magnum performance out of heavier bullets, it's not a 357Magnum in a pistol cartridge except for that one specific load. Very happy with the P226 and 357SIG. Very controllable. YMMV though as I also like my 10mms so am somewhat recoil insensitive.

[ClevelandGlocks]

I have both a Glock 23 and 32. I love my G32, fun to shoot, the recoil is really no different than my 23. As far as defense rounds I prefer the 180 grain speer gold dot for my G23. The pickens are pretty slim for defense rounds for the 357 sig, I'm running critical duty...but I'm wondering what other 357 sig carriers are carrying in their guns. If FFF had 357 sig gold dots I'd be all over it, but they don't. So what are your opinions on the best defense Rounds. Caveat...I live in downtown Cleveland, an extremely densely populated urban environment, so looking for expansion.

[dl1911]

I have both a Glock 23 and 32. I love my G32, fun to shoot, the recoil is really no different than my 23. As far as defense rounds I prefer the 180 grain speer gold dot for my G23. The pickens are pretty slim for defense rounds for the 357 sig, I'm running critical duty...but I'm wondering what other 357 sig carriers are carrying in their guns. If FFF had 357 sig gold dots I'd be all over it, but they don't. So what are your opinions on the best defense Rounds. Caveat...I live in downtown Cleveland, an extremely densely populated urban environment, so looking for expansion.

I use the 125gr Speer Gold Dot for .357SIG. I've found it at times at Fin, Feather & Fur as well as Cabela's. Checked and the new Avon store doesn't have any in stock but no problem doing a ship to store for pickup (save shipping fees). Also find them at times at gun shows (Berea show next weekend). Usually check Snake Run first.

[BuckJM53]

.... The question then boils down to, "Are you willing to take 2-3 rounds less in the mag for the 200-ish fps increase in muzzle velocity?"

As with most everything we discuss here it really boils down to what we each feel comfortable with and what we believe will do the job. In my view, I'd rather have 2-3 extra rounds of 147 gr Ranger Ts in my magazine verses the extra 200 fps. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to have to fight for my life, the 200 fps is meaningless if my pistol is empty before the job is done. YMMV

[Morne]

.... The question then boils down to, "Are you willing to take 2-3 rounds less in the mag for the 200-ish fps increase in muzzle velocity?"

As with most everything we discuss here it really boils down to what we each feel comfortable with and what we believe will do the job. In my view, I'd rather have 2-3 extra rounds of 147 gr Ranger Ts in my magazine verses the extra 200 fps. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to have to fight for my life, the 200 fps is meaningless if my pistol is empty before the job is done. YMMV

So where do you draw the line? There are ZILLIONS of additional capacity magazines out there. You can even get aftermarket springs/followers that add a round or two without changing the magazine external dimensions at all. Of course, you can also get those snazzy anodized magazine extensions that stick way far down. Really, there's no limit to what can be done.

Example of very extended mags

You have to draw the line SOMEWHERE unless you're going to hang a magazine big enough to give the AR boys envy every time you carry. Where do you draw that line and why?

[TSiWRX]

I use the 125gr Speer Gold Dot for .357SIG. I've found it at times at Fin, Feather & Fur as well as Cabela's. Checked and the new Avon store doesn't have any in stock but no problem doing a ship to store for pickup (save shipping fees). Also find them at times at gun shows (Berea show next weekend). Usually check Snake Run first.

If mail-order isn't a problem, SGAmmo almost always has available stock in single-box (50-rd.) as well as 1K-round case format of either of the two 125 gr. Speer GDHP offerings in .357 Sig.

SGAmmo always uses a discrete outer shipping box, and their packaging is bomb-proof.

[Morne]

I use the 125gr Speer Gold Dot for .357SIG. I've found it at times at Fin, Feather & Fur as well as Cabela's. Checked and the new Avon store doesn't have any in stock but no problem doing a ship to store for pickup (save shipping fees). Also find them at times at gun shows (Berea show next weekend). Usually check Snake Run first.

If mail-order isn't a problem, SGAmmo almost always has available stock in single-box (50-rd.) as well as 1K-round case format of either of the two 125 gr. Speer GDHP offerings in .357 Sig.

SGAmmo always uses a discrete outer shipping box, and their packaging is bomb-proof.

Kyle has Fed HST & Hornady Crit Duty in stock, too:
Kyle .357SIG Ammo

[BuckJM53]

.... The question then boils down to, "Are you willing to take 2-3 rounds less in the mag for the 200-ish fps increase in muzzle velocity?"

As with most everything we discuss here it really boils down to what we each feel comfortable with and what we believe will do the job. In my view, I'd rather have 2-3 extra rounds of 147 gr Ranger Ts in my magazine verses the extra 200 fps. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to have to fight for my life, the 200 fps is meaningless if my pistol is empty before the job is done. YMMV

So where do you draw the line? There are ZILLIONS of additional capacity magazines out there. You can even get aftermarket springs/followers that add a round or two without changing the magazine external dimensions at all. Of course, you can also get those snazzy anodized magazine extensions that stick way far down. Really, there's no limit to what can be done.

Example of very extended mags

You have to draw the line SOMEWHERE unless you're going to hang a magazine big enough to give the AR boys envy every time you carry. Where do you draw that line and why?

Morne ... I draw the line at where I'm comfortable. You are absolutely correct that there are "Zillions" of options out there (enough to set you crazy if you ponder it all). I am comfortable with the three members in my carry rotation (with a spare mag for each). Will it be enough ... I hope to never have to find out

[Morne]

Buck,

Sorry if my post came across as argumentative, needed coffee still when I posted it.

It's just that on the other end (big slugs equaling lower capacity) the line is very clearly drawn. We can't go bigger than 0.50" bore diameter by law. So, conceivably you could get a .50GI semi-auto but nothing bigger if you go to the logical extreme of, "I want the biggest hole that can be made and don't care about capacity." .50GI is stupidly expensive, but we are in a "cost no object" discussion here.

Back when there were a bunch of stupid laws on magazine capacity (no more than 10+1, for instance) there was quite a revival in interest amongst the larger calibers (and revolvers). The chief advantage of 9x19mm, namely capacity, was then artificially constrained so the .40 (and thus .357SIG) and .45 had some resurgence. With most of those laws gone, at least in the free states, the debate rekindles itself. At the same time, bullet technology had progressed so the more marginal calibers, amongst which I include the 9x19mm, became more viable performers. Naturally, good bullet technology is just as applicable to other stuff, so rounds like the .45 now grow to even more impressive expanded diameters than ever before on impact. Further, rounds like the .357SIG which have more speed can have bullets constructed to take advantage of that speed without opening too early and thus self-limiting their penetration to unacceptable depths. It should be noted that the famed .357MAG earned its "manstopper" reputation way back in the dark days of primitive bullet technology when nothing but raw velocity would make a bullet expand. Even today, velocity is your friend all things being equal.

Now the only limit to capacity is what you're willing to carry. Even with .357SIG/.40S&W (and .45ACP, too) there are extended magazine baseplates that can give you onboard capacity rivalling or even exceeding what a 9x19mm factory Glock/M&P/XD magazine can hold. I used to carry a .45ACP with 14+1 onboard (factory stock magazine, nothing crazy extended at all).

Long gone are the classic days of, "Choose between a single-stack 1911 .45 or a Browning Hi-Power double-stack 9mm." I'm certain we're both glad for it.

[Brian D.]

Frankly, if not for reloading, I'd have never gotten into any "niche" calibers. Two examples in my time have been 10mm, and 9x23 Winchester. The former is well known and has been discussed much on this board so I won't regurgitate the utility of 10mm.

Years ago I bought a Colt 1991 Government model in 9mm for next to nothing. It was simple to get a barrel and magazines in .38 Super, giving me a two-in-one handgun. Run it in 9mm for speed steel matches, swap to Super for carry.

Then someone gave me a box of 9x23 ammo and I did some reading on the safety/viability of shooting it out of the Super barrel. I decided to proceed carefully and try it. No pressure issues, and the 125 grain Silvertips chronographed at 1500 fps! Caught a few boxes of those rounds on sale, then got some brass, and used the same fmj bullets bought for .38 Super as practice rounds.

All of that was cool to do, but in retrospect I'd have been as well off just keeping the gun a 9mm. Great variety of components and loaded ammunition available. The hotter stuff is plenty good for self defense against all but the big predatory animals like bears, etc. You already know what I switch to for trips to Big Critter Country, it was mentioned in the first paragraph.

[Mr. Glock]

Two facts are true:

1. There is a bullet/caliber combination that is the best for the shot at hand...the angle, the clothing, the pull of the moon, everything. In one case, a longer shot that requires accuracy might be best with the 115gr 9mm +P as loaded by Barnes. The other might be a 45 185gr HST for another type of shot. And those shots might come right after each other.

2. But we don't know what it will be ahead of time and have to pick just one set up.

Personally, if I'm carrying a small gun where going from 8 rounds in a 9mm would drop to 5 in 45, I'm going with the 9. The difference between 13 rounds of 357Sig and 15 rounds of 9? I'm going with the stronger round because the percentage difference in capacity is small. But I know I shoot both equally well in that larger gun, and it works for me because the best handgun/caliber combination is the one you believe it.

We can't under-estimate the importance mental confidence in a fight. That is the edge you need to survive.