P38 or P1??

[Petrovich]

Have any of you right wing extremist, gun toting, anti-social, politically incorrect card carrying members of the NRA messed around much with a P38?

Grab 'em while they're hot. They're retailing for around 270 bucks in good condition. AIM has them for 239 in excellent condition if you feel like driving that far. AIM also has some Nazi marked specimens with steel frames for 500 bucks if yer a collector. Sog and Century also have Nazis you can get on your Curio license for about the same price.

Most of these guns were made in the 60's. They were rode easy and put away dry.

[TunnelRat]

AIM also has some Nazi marked specimens with steel frames for 500 bucks if yer a collector. Sog and Century also have Nazis you can get on your Curio license for about the same price.

Yeah, they have some nice toys there at terrific prices, but it looks like you've gotta have a Federal Firearms License to do business with either of those places.

[mattswabb]

but it looks like you've gotta have a Federal Firearms License to do business with either of those places.

You can order ahead of time and go right to AIM and pick up at their warehouse in Middletown Ohio.

matt

[Petrovich]

AIM also has some Nazi marked specimens with steel frames for 500 bucks if yer a collector. Sog and Century also have Nazis you can get on your Curio license for about the same price.

Yeah, they have some nice toys there at terrific prices, but it looks like you've gotta have a Federal Firearms License to do business with either of those places.

For the most part, yes.

They will sell you Curio and Relics though if you have a license.

BTW, spend the money for a C&R license (30 bucks for 3 years). Even if you never buy a gun, midway will give you a dealer account and I'm talking discounts of anywhere from 5 to 30 percent.

[haspelbein]

What I see at AIM are mostly the P1s, e.g. the newer designs with the aluminum frame.

I should probably get one, given that it was my duty handgun for a while. I didn't shoot it too much, but carried it alot. And it's definitely not my first choice as a carry gun! Even for a 9mm it feels strangle bulky.

The pointability and accuracy was okay, but nothing to write home about. However, I have to say that they were quite reliable. And for some reason they look really evil.

[Petrovich]

What I see at AIM are mostly the P1s, e.g. the newer designs with the aluminum frame.

I should probably get one, given that it was my duty handgun for a while. I didn't shoot it too much, but carried it alot. And it's definitely not my first choice as a carry gun! Even for a 9mm it feels strangle bulky.

The pointability and accuracy was okay, but nothing to write home about. However, I have to say that they were quite reliable. And for some reason they look really evil.

The P38/P1 are the exact same thing. Only the stamp changed. Both have alloy frames. I have even seen a couple that were stamped P38 and P1.

The design was years ahead of it's time. It was the first, successful DA semiauto used as a military sidearm. It was accepted into service by the Wehrmacht to replace the Luger, which had various shortcomings.

The design is a bit dated now, but it is a classic firearm and everybody's collection should have one.

[haspelbein]

The P38/P1 are the exact same thing. Only the stamp changed. Both have alloy frames. I have even seen a couple that were stamped P38 and P1.

Interesting, because the original pre-war P38 used a steel frame. I didn't know that some of the post-war production was also stamped P38. The restored Walther Werke started production of the alluminum/alloy frame post world war and sold the gun as the P1.

The design was years ahead of it's time. It was the first, successful DA semiauto used as a military sidearm. It was accepted into service by the Wehrmacht to replace the Luger, which had various shortcomings.

Yes, the fact that it was a DA design and did away with the somewhat awkward and unreliable Luger action was a vast improvement by itself.

The design is a bit dated now, but it is a classic firearm and everybody's collection should have one.

So many guns, so little time ...

[Petrovich]

I should have been clearer. Earlier in this post I did mention the Nazi marked pistols had steel frames.

The postwar design had the alloy frame and was still marked P38 for awhile. The P1 was simply a name change.

The steel framed guns also had a slightly different grip, ergonomically.

Now that I've thought some more. I read somewhere that some of the P38's ended up on alloy frames because they were simply using up leftover slides that had already been stamped P38. This might also explain why some slides were stamped with both designations...they just added the P1 stamp to a slide that was previously stamped P38.

Heckuvitis, my P38 slide was manufactured in 1963 according to the date stamp. You'd think they'd have been used up by that time.

I can only speculate that perhaps large lots of slides were taken out of storage during periods of increased demand for the guns and production had to be temporarily increased??? Maybe the date stamp was added later to the slide and reflected the date the gun was assembled, not the date the slide was manufactured???

[Petrovich]

As you can see, the SN's of these two guns are 43541 copies apart. The guns date stamps are 5/63 and 6/64. That factory was crankin' 'em out....about 120 guns per day. Well, more like 140 guns perday if you subtract Sundays and holidays.

Actually, if you consider this particular time span of operation the factory was producing 130 guns per day for 13 months taking into account Sundays and three holidays.

This, undoubtedly was only one line of production as Walther was making several models of handgun at the time.

[haspelbein]

[...]

Now that I've thought some more. I read somewhere that some of the P38's ended up on alloy frames because they were simply using up leftover slides that had already been stamped P38. This might also explain why some slides were stamped with both designations...they just added the P1 stamp to a slide that was previously stamped P38.

Heckuvitis, my P38 slide was manufactured in 1963 according to the date stamp. You'd think they'd have been used up by that time.

I can only speculate that perhaps large lots of slides were taken out of storage during periods of increased demand for the guns and production had to be temporarily increased??? Maybe the date stamp was added later to the slide and reflected the date the gun was assembled, not the date the slide was manufactured???

Quite possible. I only know that Walther cranked up the production, because the gun design was quite popular and they really needed to get back up onto their feet after the war. They definitely had the experience in mass production.

It would surprise me though if they had some actual P38 slides left, as Germany was almost completely demilitarized right after the war. Maybe some of the original machinery was used in the early production. But this is just pure speculation on my part.

[Petrovich]

[...]


Now that I've thought some more. I read somewhere that some of the P38's ended up on alloy frames because they were simply using up leftover slides that had already been stamped P38. This might also explain why some slides were stamped with both designations...they just added the P1 stamp to a slide that was previously stamped P38.

Heckuvitis, my P38 slide was manufactured in 1963 according to the date stamp. You'd think they'd have been used up by that time.

I can only speculate that perhaps large lots of slides were taken out of storage during periods of increased demand for the guns and production had to be temporarily increased??? Maybe the date stamp was added later to the slide and reflected the date the gun was assembled, not the date the slide was manufactured???

Quite possible. I only know that Walther cranked up the production, because the gun design was quite popular and they really needed to get back up onto their feet after the war. They definitely had the experience in mass production.

It would surprise me though if they had some actual P38 slides left, as Germany was almost completely demilitarized right after the war. Maybe some of the original machinery was used in the early production. But this is just pure speculation on my part.

This is probably all in a book on some library shelf somewhere!!

[haspelbein]

This is probably all in a book on some library shelf somewhere!!

If I can find it on the internet, I will post it here.

....

I found the answere on this site. (Sorry, it's in German.)

The original Walther Werke were indeed closed and the Walther family was sent to an American internment camp. The production of the P1 followed the PP and PP/K in 1957. The earlier versions of the P1 were indeed stamped P38, even though, as you mentioned correctly, the original wartime and pre-war P38 had a slightly different grip.

There was no carr-over of slides or machinery. The earlier production guns were just stamped P38.

[Petrovich]

This is probably all in a book on some library shelf somewhere!!

If I can find it on the internet, I will post it here.

....

I found the answere on this site. (Sorry, it's in German.)

The original Walther Werke were indeed closed and the Walther family was sent to an American internment camp. The production of the P1 followed the PP and PP/K in 1957. The earlier versions of the P1 were indeed stamped P38, even though, as you mentioned correctly, the original wartime and pre-war P38 had a slightly different grip.

There was no carr-over of slides or machinery. The earlier production guns were just stamped P38.

That clears it up nicely, thank you.

I suppose one of the aspects of collecting that keeps me so interested are the various histories that come with these old guns.

Case in point....

The Nagant revolver. You can get one in pristine condition for 90 bucks. Okay.....before I am inundated:

Ammunition is not plentiful and it's expensive
It is not a robust design.
It is functionally obselete
It takes the worst characterstics of a revolver and puts them all into one; i.e. horrible double action with loading gate like a single action.
It is under powered
Accuracy was marginal
Definately not a shooter.........

It was the official sidearm of the Russian Military for many years as well as a few other commmie flavored countries.

It was a unique design in the way it sealed the face of the cylinder with the breech to prevent the escape of gas during firing.

It was the pistol used to assasinate the Archduke Ferdinand and his wife that touched off WWI

It was the pistol for which the term 'Russian Roulette' originated....there's a story there let me tell you.

Yes, you to can own a piece of Czarist Russian history for only 90 bucks. Heck, they even ship with a holster, cleaning rod, and lanyard all in unissued condition.

[Petrovich]

The production of the P1 followed the PP and PP/K in 1957. .

Which brings us to another classic, and a great value.

The PPK's you mention are still on the wholesale market in respectable numbers and also the French version....the Manhurin. The Manhurin is a C&R too, but as such they get a fat price for them.

Our store was retailing them (walthers) a little less than a year ago for 350 bucks in very good condition. These were chambered for .380 I THINK. New ones sell for 500 in SS and a little less for blued.

For the .380 fans on the forum the PPK is a great carry piece though not light like the new polymers. Heck, get one if for no other reason than because that's what Bond......James Bond carried.

Edited to fix formatting. - Cable

[haspelbein]

@Petrofergov

The Nagant revolver is definitely unique and is easily recognized when shown in movies. (I believe the Russian word for Revolver is still "Nagant", but I may be wrong.)
My problem is: There are still too many good guns with a lot of history attached that I don't call my own.

The "Polizeipistole kurz" would be one of them. Even though slightly outdated by its weight and availble calibers (.22, .25 ACP, .380 ACP), it is very slim and can be easily concealed.

Most of the ones I see today are offered in .380 ACP, but James Bond carried it in .25 ACP, I believe.