Thoughts on .400 Cor Bon

[Petrovich]

Anybody shoot one yet?

[Brian_Horton]

I haven't ever had the chance to shoot one. I would love to try it and compare it to my 10mm guns.

My opinion though is that 10mm can exceed .400 Corbon performance and the ammo costs less so why not go with 10mm. Granted the .400 Corbon conversion to a 1911 you already own is cheaper than buying a new 10mm. I am of course biased since I am a die hard 10mm Auto guy.

[Petrovich]

I haven't ever had the chance to shoot one. I would love to try it and compare it to my 10mm guns.

My opinion though is that 10mm can exceed .400 Corbon performance and the ammo costs less so why not go with 10mm. Granted the .400 Corbon conversion to a 1911 you already own is cheaper than buying a new 10mm. I am of course biased since I am a die hard 10mm Auto guy.

Well, you just made up my mind....I'm gonna clock my rounds today.

I've been messing around with it for about three months now. What got me into it was an ebay vendor who was offering conversion barrels for 50 bucks. I have an auto ordnance 1911A1 (Kahr made) that was inaccurate as all get out. Seemed like I had the perfect excuse.

I ended up buying a barrel, link and pin, bushing, 22# slide spring and a guide rod all for 80 bucks. I have no idea how he sells that stuff so cheap but if anyone is interested I'll be happy to post Paul's address. It's good stuff too, not junk. Not real fancy either, but good stuff.

No only did accuracy improve, it's fantastic. My standard accuracy test is to hit some hanging bowling pins at 25 yards consistently from a rest. I usually hit with each shot. It really gets those bowling pins to swinging too.

My load consists of .45acp brass reformed to the cor bon. I'm shooting 175gr cast semiwadcutters that I make myself and 7gr of unique.

I'm giving this gun to my brother, and I bought another kit to convert one of my milspec Springfields.

The conversion is entirely drop-in and you can even use 1911 mags without any alteration.

[Glock and dagger]

I don't know that I would use either for this particular application. The reason.... because of the likelihood of the the round passing through an intended target and striking another unintended target.

[Petrovich]

I don't know that I would use either for this particular application. The reason.... because of the likelihood of the the round passing through an intended target and striking another unintended target.

.400 Cor-Bon is certainly inappropriate for CC.

I am planning to use my gun for pin shooting.

[Petrovich]

I don't know that I would use either for this particular application. The reason.... because of the likelihood of the the round passing through an intended target and striking another unintended target.

.400 Cor-Bon is certainly inappropriate for CC.

I am planning to use my gun for pin shooting.

I just visited the Cor Bon website and read up on their ammunition.

Their ammunition is developed for law enforcement and "self defense" but they don't mention CC.

So far, the only guns you can get conversion barrels for are 1911's, Glocks, and a couple others I can't remember. Point is, there are currently no conversions available for CC type handguns.

At any rate, they claim that the round rivals the .357 magnum, and delivers better terminal performance than .357 sig. Muzzle velocities for the heaviest projectiles, 165gr, are in the 1100fps range while the lightest ones, 135gr are in the 1400fps range.

Apparently, overpenetration is not a problem if the correct projectile is used and, of course, they recommend their own product called the power ball. It's a hollowpoint with a ploymer ball inserted in the nose cavity.

The data they presented was pretty convincing.

I imagine it will be awhile before gun manufacturers start producing anything chambered for .400 corbon much less anything in a CC package.

If you think about it, .357 sig left wildcat status a long time ago and is still not a real popular caliber (ouch I'll get kicked for that). 10mm never did get off the ground with any smashing success. It's hard to say what .400 corbon will do. Since revolvers continue to be eclipsed by semi's my guess is .400 corbon might amount to something as a truer replacement for .357 magnum.

Hey....just to throw a curve....talk about a new caliber taking the market by storm......

How about that .17 HMR??? Wooooo hoooooooo

I look for it to overcome .22LR and .22WMR.

On our racks right now we have three times the number of .17HMR and.17Mach II than we do .22 rimfire. And we sell about that ratio too.

This all happened in about 5 years!! I don't think any cartridge in history has made an impact like that (pun intended).

[Brian_Horton]

I don't know that I would use either for this particular application. The reason.... because of the likelihood of the the round passing through an intended target and striking another unintended target.

My carry ammo is Double Tap 10mm 165gr Gold Dots JHP's. They do 1400 fps muzzle velocity. The gelatin test results are 1.02 inches expansion and 14.25 inches penetration.

I don't think 14 inches is over kill on penetration. Many expert recommend 12 inches as a minimum on gelatin tests for self defense ammo. The extreme velocity of the 10mm causes the JHP to open very quickly. You can get very deep penetration in 10mm using hunting bullets like the 200gr XTP JHP or a 220gr hard cast lead bullet.

[Glock and dagger]

My carry ammo is Double Tap 165gr Gold Dots JHP's. They do 1400 fps muzzle velocity. The gelatin test results are 1.02 inches expansion and 14.25 inches penetration.

I don't think 14 inches is over kill on penetration. Many expert recommend 12 inches as a minimum on gelatin tests for self defense ammo. The extreme velocity of the 10mm causes the JHP to open very quickly. You can get very deep penetration in 10mm using hunting bullets like the 200gr XTP JHP or a 220gr hard cast lead bullet.

I'm assuming you mean 10mm ammo, here. I use .40 SW 180gr. Gold Dots for mine. In all sincerity, I'm not so interested in making an absolute mess of my adversary as I am of stopping a threat (whether that means death or whatever else, but yes, preferably death).

Let me point something out to you. We live in a state that expects you to retreat if possible, and will not protect you under Castle Domain law, like other, more citizen-friendly states. The use of intermediate powered ammunition larger than 9mm for autos or .38 for revolvers is adequate, and will put the bad guy down in a way that it would be hard to argue you did not use excessive force, or as your opponent lawyer might say, "killer ammo", which if argued properly, will result in you looking like a malicious killer, who was just lying in wait for the perfect opportunity to kill, and believe me, that is not something you want to deal with.

In addition, high-velocity ammo has a much greater tendency to pass through targets, thus expanding your potential liability, and I don't care what jello monsters show, you would have a hard time proving that a round wouldn't pass through a human at high velocity, unless you have actually done this, but that seems to be the word in Iraq, that 9mm isn't putting the enemy down, and it isn't because it is underpowered; it is because the projectiles pass through their targets, and we're just talking about 9mm here. A round that travels approximately 1100 ft/sec (I'll give it this, though... it is FMJ ball ammunition), but that shows it can happen. Physics is impossible to forsee, but not impossible to predict.

[Petrovich]

Yep, and you gotta figure military issue ball is usually pretty jizzy to boot. I haven't shot any surplus yet that wasn't loaded to the max.

At the same time, you NEED that kind of velocity to get a hollow point to perform as it was intended.

I think that's Cor bon's angle.....high velocity combined with premium, high performance projectiles.

In addition, high-velocity ammo has a much greater tendency to pass through targets, thus expanding your potential liability, and I don't care what jello monsters show, you would have a hard time proving that a round wouldn't pass through a human at high velocity, unless you have actually done this,

While it's true gelatin does not duplicate ballistic activity in a human being, it does give us a standard so that we can make repeatable experiments. We can take the results of these experiments and assess the data to make reasonably intelligent guesses. Tissue and bone are not an homogenous substance. Various strata will have different composition and mass...and no two targets will be the same. That's why animal tests are still done.

So....I propose a suggestion. All of us who are true patriots are going to go out and donate our bodies for ballistic experimentation when we die; right?

[Brian_Horton]

Glock and Dagger,

Yes, I meant 10mm. It's an omission that I will fix.

Personally I don't worry too much about carrying "extreme killer ammo" as the anti's would call it. No one anywhere has ever been able to show me a case where the type of ammo used was a factor in getting someone in trouble as long as the shooter was justified in using lethal force. If you can point me to a court case in this country where a person who was found to have legally used lethal force to stop a criminal attack was hurt in court in some way by the ammo they used them please tell me. I really would like to read up on the case. To be honest most people, and this includes lawyers, don't know squat about ammo or bullets or differences in them. If some lawyer tried to use my type or brand of ammo against me then he would do it for any JHP by calling them exploding bullets or some other idiotic thing. Also technically speaking the bullet I have in my 10mm is exactly the same bullet as used in a .40S&W that is so popular with law enforcement.

I understand that in Ohio we have a duty to retreat. But in Ohio and every other state that I know of lethal force is lethal force. There are no varying degrees. If I shoot someone with a .22LR or a .500Magnum or cut them with a knife it doesn't matter as long as I am justified in using lethal force. I must stop shooting once the threat is gone. I will shoot to stop the threat and no more. But if I have to shoot then my life or someone else's is in immediate and grave danger and I want to be able to stop that threat as quickly as possible and I have every right to do that.

I don't necessarily agree with your statement that high velocity ammo over penetrates. Depth of penetration depends on many factors of which velocity is one. Besides velocity you must look at bullet weight, bullet construction and material, bullet caliber, and sectional density. An FMJ will always go deeper than a JHP because there is no energy lost in deformation of the hollow point. Fast velocities will cause a modern JHP to open quicker and the increased frontal surface area will slow the buller down faster. Many years ago the 10mm did go very deep when compared to other calibers. That was largely due to the bullet construction. The bullets back then were not made as well as they are today and they had to trade on expansion to keep the bullet together. Todays bonded JHP's, like the Gold Dot, allow faster expansion and still keep it all together.

I also must add that it is my belief that I would rather over penetrate than under penetrate. This was the same conclusion reached by the FBI after they lost several agents in a shoot out back in the 80's. All of the agents were using 9mm and .38spl. They fired many rounds but most of their hits did not penetrate deep enough to be effective due to bad angles and intermediate barriers.

To each his own. If you like carrying 9mm and .38spl (and I carry .38spl+P in my back up gun) then you should. I guess I'll leave you with this saying that is so often repeated in the gun world, "Carry the biggest caliber you can shoot well". That's what I do.

[Petrovich]

Glock and Dagger,

Yes, I meant 10mm. It's an omission that I will fix.....

Makes a bunch of sense to me.

I'm having fun with this corbon, but I don't expect to carry any of it soon.

[Glock and dagger]

Until we have a Castle Doctrine law in this state (or country would be even better), I'm not going to test that theory out. People sue others, even when they were in the wrong, for the most idiotic crap now. Don't think for one minute lawyers (especially ambulance chasers) are stupid, because even if they are, chances are, so will be the jury.

[Brian_Horton]

Until we have a Castle Doctrine law in this state (or country would be even better), I'm not going to test that theory out. People sue others, even when they were in the wrong, for the most idiotic crap now. Don't think for one minute lawyers (especially ambulance chasers) are stupid, because even if they are, chances are, so will be the jury.

I understand where you are coming from.

You make an excellent point about juries being stupid. My dad just served on a jury for a somewhat tricky DUI case. He was shocked at how everyone else but him and one other person didn't hardly pay attention to any of the arguements and details of the case. He said that nearly everyone said something to the effect of he's guilty just look at his appearance (rough looking blue collar guy). The guy was guilty but my dad was able to get them to all walk through the facts of the case to show why he was guilty. Even then some of them had a hard time following along as he explained all the relevant details. These were regular people businessmen, home makers, retirees, etc. Rather shocking and scary really.

[Petrovich]

I just clocked my load...it's a 175gr cast bullet, a reformed federal 45 acp case, large winchester primer and 7gr Unique. The gun is a Springfield Armory, milspec 1911A1. Shots were about 2 feet from the muzzle.

Five shots averaged out to 1150fps.

This gun has a #22 slide spring, and a full length guide rod in it. Felt recoil was about the same compared to .45acp.

[Glock and dagger]

This gun has a #22 slide spring, and a full length guide rod in it. Felt recoil was about the same compared to .45acp.

Well, you'll have that...