Interesting web site: Testing round penetration.

rickt · Post by **rickt** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:14 am

I found this to be an interesting web site. This guy has spent a lot of time firing various rounds into different materials. It's amply illustrated with lots of photos and running commentary.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:41 am

Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

The slug penetrated all 12 boards.

2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.

You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.

I assumed 00Buck would penetrate more than it did. #4 Buck performed as I suspected and its why its ready to go in my Rem 870 as I type this. You still have to aim due to the spread only being 2" at 12 to 15ft, but over penetration is what worries me the most, so #4 Buck it is. My Sig would stay in its nightstand drawer if I was victim of a home invasion(assuming it happened while I was sleeping, otherwise the Sig is on my hip at all times and that would become primary).

Thanks for the link, theres a lot more to check out, time to make a fresh pot of Folgers and get to it!

Update....

Uh oh...

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Hmmmmmmm

The following is what most here will care about...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm

MySQLQuery · Post by **MySQLQuery** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:56 am

Heh, I forget where I found that site, but I love it!

willbird · Post by **willbird** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:48 am

Well didnt the USA troops use #4 buck in Vietnam ?? I have often seen it quoted that the mil found it to be best. heck even BB size lead shot will shoot clear thru a coyote and stop at the inside of the skin on the far side, thats quite a bit of muscle to penetrate to get there.

Talking to a Dr I know about the Cheney episode I found out that when shot enters an artery or vein it can travel in there to another part of the body and cause problems there, like to the heart, lungs, or brain.

Bill

johnisaly · Post by **johnisaly** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:03 pm

rickt -

Thanks for the link to that site. Personally I was very surprised to learn that the snubnose .38 spl. has better pentration than the Glock's firing 9mm & .40 cal. (The Box O' Truth #27)

Post by **Jake** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:47 pm

What concerns me is all the ammo that did not expand....

Leaves me feeling uhhh....less than confident.

Pardon moi...but doesn't this lil thread belong in Firearms-Gear?...

either way...cool link, Thanks!

rickt · Post by **rickt** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:43 am

Jake44460 wrote:What concerns me is all the ammo that did not expand.... Leaves me feeling uhhh....less than confident.

Pardon moi...but doesn't this lil thread belong in Firearms-Gear?...

You're right, that would have been more appropriate. I wish I could move it.

Post by **Morne** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:12 am

Awesome website!

I find it fascinating that the smaller handguns did as well as they did. It seems like a good quality .32 ACP would at least get deep enough to potentially stop a BG, something I NEVER would have guesed. Too bad he didn't try one of those .25's, I'll wager that tiny round wouldn't get into even the 2nd water jug.

One thing is for sure, it reinforced a practice I've had for some time with smaller caliber guns (like my beloved 9x18). I alternate FMJ with JHP in the magazine, that way in any double tap I'm assured to at least get deep enough to stop the guy, even if he is wearing a heavy leather jacket. The JHP will probably total a skinny foe on the spot, or at least make for an ugly shallow wound in a bigger BG.

The spot about Level IIIA armor really says it, rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols. I'd have liked to see him do some tests with the higher-energy handguns, say .44 magnum, .454 and .500 S&W. Also, I don't think he used the hard armor inserts, it would be fascinating to see how that changed things.