Squib round in my carry ammo

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Redhorse
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Licking county

Post by Redhorse »

The wisest (and easiest) way to do this is to be competent and capable.

Can be quite difficult for some people! :shock:
Freedom isn't free!
Petrovich
*** Banned ***
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:39 pm

Post by Petrovich »

tommcnaughton wrote:
Petrofergov wrote:The BEST ammo is the stuff you make yourself.
Alas, my Russian friend, the only ammo I can make myself is a snowball... :(
Try reloading....it adds a whole new dimension to the shooting hobby. I enjoy it immensely.
Safety Guy
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:37 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Safety Guy »

Ring wrote:

"I have 10,000+ rounds of varyous ammo in my house.. from 22 to 50bmg i have no clue where i got 1/2 of it..."

:lol:

Ha! Yep, that might work then.

Karl
I WANT VERMONT! (OR "ALASKA")
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
Buckshot
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:52 pm
Location: Lima, Ohio

For Tom McN.

Post by Buckshot »

Tom,

I have no printed word in front of me to forward to you about the 9mm ammo.

Having said that, yes the FBI went to the heavy bullet 9mm after their fiasco in Miami, FL. If you think back, that is ancient history now, it has been AT LEAST 10 years ago now.

The word I got on them giving up the "heavy bullet" 9mm came from the firearms training unit personnel at my local county sheriff's office.

I work with some of them fairly regularly and we talk about this kind of stuff a lot. Lets me keep up with what is going on since I dropped my gun magazines some time ago.

I was asking them why and how they came to adopt the H&K in .45 ACP and got rid of their S&W 5946s.

Their answer is that they wanted a heavy bullet that would penetrate, stop and expand as designed.

Then 9mm 147 gr. bullets were often moving so slow out of the shorter barreled guns (they were mostly designed for 5 to 5.5" barrels and were designed to just expand to the FBI's requirements out of those barrels) that they would not expand.

They were also causing feed problems for the slilghtly older guns that that were set up and balanced for the 115 gr. to 124 gr. bullets. As the magazines got to be two or three years old and carried all the times the springs got just a little bit weaker and they just wouldn't push up the "heavy 9s" as well as the lighter 9s.

These are the guys that told me that the FBI has backed off of the "heavy 9mm" for a lot of the same reasons just cited. One reason they also mentioned is that the "heavy 9mm" was ESPECIALLY BAD for all the reasons listed above AND FOR RECOIL in the very small S&W 3913s and 6906s that many prefered for off duty carry.

I didn't keep asking about FBI stuff, most of those guys really don't consider the FBI to be the "final expert" on this stuff as the average FBI agent does not encounter the range of stuff that an average deputy will encounter. The FBI NEVER has to deal with animal control (deer, hogs and cows especially) that a deputy often deals with so they do not consider those uses in their handgun selection.

In their selection of the .45 ACP they came up with the following:

9mm P is just not enough caliber to do everything they might have to do with it. Heavy or light, standard pressure or +P+, just doesn't get there from here.

.40 S&W would probably do it, but they considered the cartridge as being too close to the edge, pressures running higher than even the 9mm P and way over the .45 ACP, right up near the 10mm. There were kabooms in the .40 S&W, some of the guns they were loaned for evaluation were VERY inaccurate and all of them just seemed to be pushed right up to the ragged edge, leaving no margin for error. Recoil control problems in some of the weaker deputies also.

10mm died when the FBI and S&W together could not make it work. Too powerful for almost half of the deputies to do any good with it also. Affordable practice ammo problems also.

.357 SIG was too new to have any track records, but was seen to offer no sources for affordable practice ammo at the time. Also runs at high pressure and can cause control problems with some deputies.

.45 ACP was found to have sufficient size and weight to do a good job of stopping even if it suffered a failure to expand. It carries enough bullet weight to perform the jobs the deputy is called on to use it for in additon to self defense. It operates a a low pressure and does not put the stress on the firearms that the higher pressure rounds does. They had no recoil control problems with the regular deputies, even the smaller females.

They picked the .45 ACP in the H&K PSP (I think that is the right gun, I am having brain fade right now, the currently available one) in full size for uniform duty and their choice of full size or compact for detectives and those kinds of assignments. THis is for the full time paid deputies, who are issued their firarms, though they may buy their own.

They selected the 230 gr. HP from several sources (they get their ammo via bid every 6 months or once a year so they have to have alternatives) AFTER the ammo has passed their tests satisfactorily.

Special Deputies and Mounted Possee (both horse and motorcycle) provide their own firarms and may carry current or past issue firearms as well as a long list of other acceptable firarms. They have some still carrying .357 Mag. revolvers; a bunch carrying 9mms, mostly S&Ws and Glocks; some carrying .40 S&W though the department never adopted it and some carrying .45s, mostly the H&Ks and some of the S&Ws.

They can not carry single action semi-autos on duty. They can, with a checkout and qualification course, carry them off duty if they prove to be competent with them.

State law requires qualification once a year with the handgun and once a year with the shotgun. This department does this AND qualifies once a year with their off duty weapon, if they carry one, or their duty weapon in an off duty rig if they carry that way. If they missor fail the off duty then they are de-certified for off duty carry. If they miss or fail the duty handgun or the shotgun qualifications they are offered one make-up then de-certified for that weapon. The other 9 months of the year they are offered non-mandatory firearms training once a month.

One of the best things you can do when picking carry ammo is find out what local agencies are carrying and pick one of those. It always helps when you can say "I looked at my choices and chose the XYZ round, which is also used by the locak ABC Police Department".

Buckshot
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

An excellent, informative post! Thank you very much! :D
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
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