Which is the best caliber for concealed carry?

[Brian_Horton]

I have some Corbon 95gr JHP's that are supposed to do 1050 fps too. I have also heard from people that the Barnaul 95gr JHP's will get up near 1100 fps.

[Petrovich]

I have some Corbon 95gr JHP's that are supposed to do 1050 fps too. I have also heard from people that the Barnaul 95gr JHP's will get up near 1100 fps.

May have to check it out.

[Gargoyle357]

Like breakfast cereal questions. Every one has a favorite, and some wants to knock the other persons choice.

Peanutbutter Captain Crunch is the best breakfast cereal and all others are sub-par. ....

Next discussion: 1911 versus GLOCK. The choice between a pretty gun that jams a lot versus an ugly gun that shoots everytime.

First off, I'm coo coo for Cocoa Puffs! Peanutbutter Capt. Crunch is up there, but it is NOT above my Puffs!

Secondly, I choose none of the above. I prefer a pretty gun that shoots all the time, like maybe a Beretta!

[JJones]

Like breakfast cereal questions. Every one has a favorite, and some wants to knock the other persons choice.

Peanutbutter Captain Crunch is the best breakfast cereal and all others are sub-par. ....

Next discussion: 1911 versus GLOCK. The choice between a pretty gun that jams a lot versus an ugly gun that shoots everytime.

First off, I'm coo coo for Cocoa Puffs! Peanutbutter Capt. Crunch is up there, but it is NOT above my Puffs!

Secondly, I choose none of the above. I prefer a pretty gun that shoots all the time, like maybe a Beretta!

Sure it does....

Ask Dan some time why we rib him about his Beretta

[Gargoyle357]

Like breakfast cereal questions. Every one has a favorite, and some wants to knock the other persons choice.

Peanutbutter Captain Crunch is the best breakfast cereal and all others are sub-par. ....

Next discussion: 1911 versus GLOCK. The choice between a pretty gun that jams a lot versus an ugly gun that shoots everytime.

First off, I'm coo coo for Cocoa Puffs! Peanutbutter Capt. Crunch is up there, but it is NOT above my Puffs!

Secondly, I choose none of the above. I prefer a pretty gun that shoots all the time, like maybe a Beretta!

Sure it does....

Ask Dan some time why we rib him about his Beretta

Guess I should have specified a model. That 9000 of his really ain't very pretty either!

[Petrovich]

Secondly, I choose none of the above. I prefer a pretty gun that shoots all the time, like maybe a Beretta!

My son carries a Berreta in Iraq. I got him a Lasermax sight for it (not cheap!). He loves the laser sight; he says it makes all the difference in the world in intimidation factor...

However, from our point of view (both his and mine) the Berreta is a lot like Oprah -- a little too big in the butt for our taste....

A little too liberal for my taste as well.

For the life of me I will never understand why the military went with a sidearm having an open slide. Everybody knows how hard it is to keep military guns clean. Imaging the crud and junk (and sand) that gets into that pistol. Heck, the locking mechanism is even exposed!

Other than that, I like the 92fs. I can even understand the rationale for the military going with 9x19 though I don't buy it completely.

[Michael Courtney]

Cartridge selection depends on a careful assessment of many shooter-specific details. Several years ago, I originally selected a .357 Sig to carry the same cartridge as my wife. I would have preferred a .40 S&W, but I felt that commonality was more important than a small advantage in stopping power. Since then, I've learned alot about my risk and usage assessment that make me even more inclined toward the .357 Sig.

First of all, the .357 Sig is very accurate in my P229, much more accurate than any .40 I've seen. While accuracy might not be a big factor in the average urban risk assessment, it is important in how I use the gun. Several factors come into play. I'm a farmer, so my primary use of a pistol is shooting varmints I encounter as targets of opportunity. Shots at groundhog and racoon-sized critters are common, and I've scored hits out to 150 yards. Also, we've had people attacked by rabid coyotes in nearby areas.

The largest hospital in my county records many more admittances due to dog attacks than felonious assaults. We had a large rotweiller enter our yard, knock down our kids and threaten our livestock. My wife and I held a .357 Sig and a .223 on him as we corralled him in a fenced area and summoned the dog warden. I've also been chased several times by unleashed dogs while riding my bike at a local park.

Finally, raising cattle does generate an appreciation for the ability of a 125 grain bullet at 1350 FPS to penetrate a bovine skull. If you've ever stared down a 1600 lb horned and angry steer, you know what I mean. I've never had to shoot one yet, but I've had occasion to fire warning shots into the ground in front of a rogue animal a couple of times. I'm not sure if it's the muzzle blast or the dirt spray that turns 'em around.

The bottom line is that I am much more likely to have to shoot a canine or a bovine than a human in defense of self and family.

The smaller recoil and greater manageability (compared to the .40) also give the .357 Sig a significant advantage when shooting at running critters up close (racoons mostly). Unlike stationary critters past 15 yards, running critters are usually a multi-shot affair, and I've got about a 75% success rate terminating running raccoons.

But each individual shooter will have their own optimal balance between accuracy, power, speed, size, weight, penetration, etc. for their risk assessments and usage pattern. There are times when I carry a 22LR because shooting varmints in the barn with the .357 Sig is just too loud.

Michael Courtney

[Petrovich]

First of all, the .357 Sig is very accurate in my P229, much more accurate than any .40 I've seen. While accuracy might not be a big factor in the average urban risk assessment, it is important in how I use the gun. Several factors come into play. I'm a farmer, so my primary use of a pistol is shooting varmints I encounter as targets of opportunity. Shots at groundhog and racoon-sized critters are common, and I've scored hits out to 150 yards. Also, we've had people attacked by rabid coyotes in nearby areas.Michael Courtney

Run that by me again, Michael.

150 yard hits on whistle pigs with a pistol???

That is some mighty fine shootin' friend!!!

I'd call myself good if I hit one at 150 feet....from a rest.

Now, you can call that a typo if you want to.....

[Mad Duck]

Hmmm............which caliber is best????, the biggest one you can shoot well with.

[RockinB]

Cartridge selection depends on a careful assessment of many shooter-specific details. Several years ago, I originally selected a .357 Sig to carry the same cartridge as my wife. I would have preferred a .40 S&W, but I felt that commonality was more important than a small advantage in stopping power. Since then, I've learned alot about my risk and usage assessment that make me even more inclined toward the .357 Sig.

First of all, the .357 Sig is very accurate in my P229, much more accurate than any .40 I've seen. While accuracy might not be a big factor in the average urban risk assessment, it is important in how I use the gun. Several factors come into play. I'm a farmer, so my primary use of a pistol is shooting varmints I encounter as targets of opportunity. Shots at groundhog and racoon-sized critters are common, and I've scored hits out to 150 yards. Also, we've had people attacked by rabid coyotes in nearby areas.

The largest hospital in my county records many more admittances due to dog attacks than felonious assaults. We had a large rotweiller enter our yard, knock down our kids and threaten our livestock. My wife and I held a .357 Sig and a .223 on him as we corralled him in a fenced area and summoned the dog warden. I've also been chased several times by unleashed dogs while riding my bike at a local park.

Finally, raising cattle does generate an appreciation for the ability of a 125 grain bullet at 1350 FPS to penetrate a bovine skull. If you've ever stared down a 1600 lb horned and angry steer, you know what I mean. I've never had to shoot one yet, but I've had occasion to fire warning shots into the ground in front of a rogue animal a couple of times. I'm not sure if it's the muzzle blast or the dirt spray that turns 'em around.

The bottom line is that I am much more likely to have to shoot a canine or a bovine than a human in defense of self and family.

The smaller recoil and greater manageability (compared to the .40) also give the .357 Sig a significant advantage when shooting at running critters up close (racoons mostly). Unlike stationary critters past 15 yards, running critters are usually a multi-shot affair, and I've got about a 75% success rate terminating running raccoons.

But each individual shooter will have their own optimal balance between accuracy, power, speed, size, weight, penetration, etc. for their risk assessments and usage pattern. There are times when I carry a 22LR because shooting varmints in the barn with the .357 Sig is just too loud.

Michael Courtney

Why do I get the feeling that Michael the (Articulate, Paranoid, Farmer?) submitted the above as a spoof? It sounds as if he is in daily combat with platoons of raccoons, unidentifiable coon sized critters, unleashed dogs, rabid coyotes and crazed barnyard animals. If such a dangerous county exists. I'm sure we would have been warned of it's dangers by the media.
I sure would liked to have seen the Rottwieler with his (paws up). Most farmers shoot, shovel,and shut up.
Regarding not shooting the Sig in the barn. My concern would be the damage done by missed shots, and not the noise.
Of course if any of you have seen the laser shooting gallery at Cabelas, that flys in the face of safe shooting practices,you may assume it's where he trains for those long shots. I sure hope that reply was meant to be a joke.

[Petrovich]

Why do I get the feeling that Michael the (Articulate, Paranoid, Farmer?) submitted the above as a spoof? It sounds as if he is in daily combat with platoons of raccoons, unidentifiable coon sized critters, unleashed dogs, rabid coyotes and crazed barnyard animals. If such a dangerous county exists. I'm sure we would have been warned of it's dangers by the media.
I sure would liked to have seen the Rottwieler with his (paws up). Most farmers shoot, shovel,and shut up.
Regarding not shooting the Sig in the barn. My concern would be the damage done by missed shots, and not the noise.
Of course if any of you have seen the laser shooting gallery at Cabelas, that flys in the face of safe shooting practices,you may assume it's where he trains for those long shots. I sure hope that reply was meant to be a joke.

I'm just glad Ol' Michael is so well armed. By golly, if he can't pacify 'em with a .357 sig that .223 will make a potent backup. Terminating running raccoons and bringin' them roguish rotts to justice sounds like a full time job....I wonder where he gets time to make hay and so on?

C'mon Michael.....we's hankerin' for the next chapter of the story!

[Michael Courtney]

Run that by me again, Michael.

150 yard hits on whistle pigs with a pistol???

That is some mighty fine shootin' friend!!!

I'd call myself good if I hit one at 150 feet....from a rest.

Now, you can call that a typo if you want to.....

I've tried shots over 100 yards about 1/2 dozen times and only connected once, and that was with a fence-post as a rest. There was some luck involved, to be sure, and the bullet may have even ricocheted off of the ground in front of the animal, but the dead critter left no doubt what had happened. Off of a bench rest, the pistol shoots well enough to reliably hit ground hog-sized critters out to about 50 yards. Beyond that, hits always require some degree of luck.

Michael Courtney

[Petrovich]

Run that by me again, Michael.

150 yard hits on whistle pigs with a pistol???

That is some mighty fine shootin' friend!!!

I'd call myself good if I hit one at 150 feet....from a rest.

Now, you can call that a typo if you want to.....

I've tried shots over 100 yards about 1/2 dozen times and only connected once, and that was with a fence-post as a rest. There was some luck involved, to be sure, and the bullet may have even ricocheted off of the ground in front of the animal, but the dead critter left no doubt what had happened. Off of a bench rest, the pistol shoots well enough to reliably hit ground hog-sized critters out to about 50 yards. Beyond that, hits always require some degree of luck.

Michael Courtney

Here's what I've done. Just for fun mind you.

I've sat at a range bench and aimed 100 yards downrange at the backstop and picked out a spot. Then I'll fire a pistol round and look for the dust signature. It is surprising how close I can get after a few shots for placement. It's fun to do and breaks up the routine.

I have an old CZ52 commie gun. It shoots a bottle neck cartridge measuring 7.62x25. It's a fast round and a flat shooter. I can ping a 12' metal circle with it at nearly 50 yards....from a rest.

I believe if I was gonna shoot whistle pigs and mad cows, however, I'd go for a rifle.

[Michael Courtney]

Why do I get the feeling that Michael the (Articulate, Paranoid, Farmer?) submitted the above as a spoof? It sounds as if he is in daily combat with platoons of raccoons, unidentifiable coon sized critters, unleashed dogs, rabid coyotes and crazed barnyard animals. If such a dangerous county exists. I'm sure we would have been warned of it's dangers by the media.

When 10 years of events are compressed into a few paragraphs, it sounds like a lot. I was carrying under the affirmative defense and open carry laws long before concealed carry was enacted last year. I grew sweet corn for 6 years on bottom land bordered by marsh and a creek, and any one who grows sweet corn knows, this situation attracts a lot of racoons. We've killed as many as 100 racoons in a single year. And any farm has it's fair share of groundhogs.

Being close to an urban area, we're also overrun with deer and Canada geese, and some years we get permission from the Division of Wildlife to shoot them out of season. There's very little sport hunting on surrounding areas, so most of the population management is done on a 100 acre property surrounded by thousands of acres of Metropark. During the sport hunting season last year, we killed over 40 deer on a bit over 100 acres. I've also shot 4 coyotes within 50 yards of my house. Over the last decade, I've also killed over 150 deer, hundreds of racoons, and dozens of groundhogs.

If you doubt my status as a farmer, you should visit your local library and look up the front page of the Cleveland Plain Dealer business section from 10/23/2002. There's an article on my farm business and a big picture of me holding my daughter with some sheep in the background. Records of the deer damage control permits are also available through the Ohio Division of Wildlife.

I sure would liked to have seen the Rottwieler with his (paws up). Most farmers shoot, shovel,and shut up.

The rotweiller belongs to a neighbor who would certainly have heard the shot and if I'd hit him poorly, the rotweiller had a good chance of making it back to the neighbor's land. The event also occurred within plain sight of an access easement the neighbor uses to cross my property to get to his. The dog warden solved the problem without a potential legal mess or feud with the neighbor.

Regarding not shooting the Sig in the barn. My concern would be the damage done by missed shots, and not the noise.

One must always be sure of the target and what is beyond it. One often has a big stack of haybales, a bare patch of dirt, or some blocks of wood behind the target varmint. If the critter is in front of a tractor tire, one needs to wait. Finally, the barn isn't a place to blast away at a running critter, but to terminate the matter with one well-placed shot. I don't think I've ever missed a shot in the barn, because it's always close and I take a lot of time to make sure my aim is steady and that there's nothing going to get damaged in the process.

To be sure, it is not my intent to advocate unsafe shooting practices, but rather to give a real picture of how a gun is often used in a farm setting. Gun safety is always important. I'm not just a local farmer, I'm a hunter education instructor for the Division of Wildlife and an NRA certified instructor for basic pistol and personal protection in the home. For most varmint hunters, I would not advocate shooting a groundhog between the tires of a farmer's tractor. But the farmer who owns the tractor can certainly exercise discretion to do so if he thinks he can make the shot without hitting his tractor.

Michael Courtney

[Michael Courtney]

I believe if I was gonna shoot whistle pigs and mad cows, however, I'd go for a rifle.

The rifle is always the preferred tool for the job, but when needs arise in a hurry, there's not always time to fetch it. The one time a bovine managed to put me in the hospital, there wasn't even time to bring a pistol into play.

Most of the groundhogs I shoot are with a rifle, but occasionally there isn't time. Of the half-dozen or so groundhogs I've shot so far this month, two were with a pistol (in the barn), and four were with a rifle. Of the four racoons I've shot so far this month, two were with a pistol (in the barn), and two were with a rifle (in a field). All were targets of opportunity, meaning I was just going about my farm chores and not really hunting.

Michael Courtney