What ammo do you use..

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CurtInOhio
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Post by CurtInOhio »

P229DAKowner wrote: 147 grain Winchester Silver Tipped Hollow Points
I take it that's only for nights with a full moon??? 8)

I don't know if any of you from Dayton remember a story from about 30 years ago on channel 22... John Walker, I think, would come on with special reports stating that some sort of 'wolfman' was spotted at different places around, and warned children to be in after dark... it included supposed eye witness report of seeing this wolfman even driving in traffice, etc... all made up just to scare kids into being inside by dark. I'd love to find old tapes of it.... I was 10 at the time, and we pretty much believed it at first; afterall, the media wouldn't lie to kids, would they???

And to not hijack this too much... I use Federal Hydra Shoks, but am more than willing to try other stuff, too. Cor Bon is on my list to find and try.

And, in all seriousness, P229DAKowner, you say you put in FMJs every so often; do you worry that the mix would give someone cause to say you were out to kill someone instead of just stopping them? I guess my first impression was that mixing could get an anti to say that one is trying to ensure that one bullet or another will kill vs. just stop. I'm not saying I agree at all; just a topic for discussion... For those of us trying to learn.
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Post by Glock and dagger »

Ahh, but my Federal HydraShok ammunition is environmentally safe, multiculturally tolerant, and socially aware. It offers those poor, misdirected miscreants (who may have suffered a difficult childhood) a kinder, gentler, stopping power.
Perhaps ammo selection can tell a lot about a person, because my belief is slightly different. My experience has proved to me that criminals show no mercy, so from me, they can expect no mercy right back.

This isn't a rip on HydraShoks, because I use .45ACP HS during the winter months when I can more easily conceal a Glock 21. But let's face it, many of us had difficult childhoods, also, but you don't see any of us preying on the innocent.
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P229DAKowner
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Post by P229DAKowner »

CurtInOhio wrote: And, in all seriousness, P229DAKowner, you say you put in FMJs every so often; do you worry that the mix would give someone cause to say you were out to kill someone instead of just stopping them?

No I don't worry.
Studies have been done on HP rounds. Sometimes they will not penitrate heavy clothes, or coats in the winter. That is my reason for using them. Not saying that every FMJ round will but in order to stop the threat sometimes you have to use everymeans possible.
Brian_Horton
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Post by Brian_Horton »

P229DAKowner,

I think you may be a little confused. Heavy winter clothing can affect JHP preformance but not in the way you were speaking of if we are both talking about service calibers. Heavy winter clothing can clog up a JHP so that it does not expand and therefore acts like a FMJ bullet. A JHP from a decent sized caliber will go right through a heavy winter coat, it just may not expand. If it were that easy to stop a JHP then police officers would not carry them. Even if the JHP isn't totally clogged up and still expands typically a JHP will penetrate deeper and expand slower when the target is covered by heavy clothing than if there was nothing covering the target at all.
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Willy P
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Post by Willy P »

One other thing while we are covering carry ammo. How many of you all use a different "Barney" round every so often as opposed to using the same one as your chambered round time and again having the extractor work on the rim of the round every time you hand eject it when unloading for whatever reason. I had an instructor that was anal about changing Barneys on a regular basis as a little insurance of good cycling if you ever needed to defend yourself with the firearm. Just a thought.
Brian D.
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Post by Brian D. »

Guess I don't get too caught up in ballistic gelatin testing. I just use any factory hollowpoint that feeds through my guns, and goes as fast as advertised. (My chronograph has shown me some surprising stuff over the years.)

From what I've seen shot placement (which we have some control over, given lotsa practice) and what I call the RDL Factor* figure more prominently than Gold Dot vs. Golden Saber vs. Hydra Shok vs. Silvertip etc.

Having spent some years in EMS, both pre-hospital and hospital, bullets sometimes do what you'd expect when they meet flesh and bone, other times not even close.


*That's why I believe in the RDL Factor--Random Dumb Luck! Have seen/been advised of things like .25 drop somebody on the spot, .357 and 12 ga slug NOT make a quick stop.
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CurtInOhio
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Post by CurtInOhio »

Brian D. wrote:*That's why I believe in the RDL Factor--Random Dumb Luck! Have seen/been advised of things like .25 drop somebody on the spot, .357 and 12 ga slug NOT make a quick stop.
While luck will always be a factor (it's not really luck... it's all physics, but too many variables to predict in every situation), I think it's important to use what has statistically proven itself to give the most advantage. Given different statistical results, over time one would more than likely find that luck also follows the same patterns that the statistics show.

With that, it's true I can make statistics mimic lots of arguments, which is why statistics on how carrying citizens thwart criminal activity haven't shut the anti's up... they make their own statistics and either claim they're right or at least claim that there's no statistical evidence against their claims.

I don't get too caught up in whether brand x stops 91.7% of the time vs. brand y stopping only 90.9% of the time... there's enough variation that I'd go for the cheaper ammo in that case... tests could have skewed slightly one way or the other with results that are fairly close. But if the difference is 90% vs. 70%, I'm going with the 90%.
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Post by TunnelRat »

CurtInOhio wrote:I don't get too caught up in whether brand x stops 91.7% of the time vs. brand y stopping only 90.9% of the time... there's enough variation that I'd go for the cheaper ammo in that case... tests could have skewed slightly one way or the other with results that are fairly close. But if the difference is 90% vs. 70%, I'm going with the 90%.
The problem being that the fella who is reporting the 90% and the 70% has been shown to be wholly unreliable.
------------------------------------------------------------------
From Firearms Tactical Institute:http://www.firearmstactical.com

Chances are, if you’re an average person, your primary (perhaps only) source of information about wound ballistics is what you've read in newsstand gun magazines. Problem is, most newsstand gun magazines are not a credible wound ballistics reference. Why?

Because a few questionable gun-writers (and editors) apparently recognize that magazine articles are the only source of information about wound ballistics for most people. It appears they’ve chosen to prey on a general lack of knowledge about wound ballistics to misinform and invent controversy. Controversy sparks reader interest and promotes sales. Most anyone familiar with the popular media recognizes this.

These discredited authors have been so successful in influencing the popular gun press (including honest editors and authors who don’t know any better) that most information published in newsstand gun magazines about wound ballistics is tainted.

The basics of terminal performance, wounding effects and wounding effectiveness are pretty easy for ordinary people to understand, and this creates a conflict of interest for some gun-writers because there really isn't much to write about.

Instead of sticking to simple facts these particular authors would rather delude you with paragraph after paragraph of mystical concepts such as "energy transfer," "neural shock," "Fuller Index," "one-shot stopping power," "Strasbourg Tests," and "street results." Although this stuff makes for interesting and entertaining reading, it's really nothing more than a bunch of sophisticated junk-science they've invented to ensure they have plenty to write about.

These pseudo-expert 'master psychics' of wound ballistics want you to believe only they (and they alone) possess the clairvoyance to properly interpret and evaluate the factors that make a particular bullet more effective than others. They tell an alluring tale, but these discredited few are actually snake-oil salesmen who've been quite successful in creating a market to peddle their brand of proprietary nonsense.
TunnelRat

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Post by Petrovich »

JHP's perform well provided they have sufficient velocity.

Cor bon also has a polymer tipped JHP that shows good results.
Petrovich
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Bottle neck revolver cartridges

Post by Petrovich »

With the explosion in development of bottle neck pistol cartridges I am quite surprised that someone hasn't jumped on the bandwagon with revolvers.

All I can think of at the moment is .17HMR and .17machII in a revolver. Are there others I have missed?

What say you to a .44 magnum necked down to a .357????? Maybe we could even bring back the old Nagant concept of a sealed chamber.

That'd make a good deer gun with some remarkable range, I figure.

Heck, all this stuff we do with sabots???? Eventually someone is gonna figure out that simply designing a gun with a necked down cartridge is the logical solution.

Heheheheheheheehehehe

I just gave away the next patent in firearms.
jualdeaux
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I use...

Post by jualdeaux »

Winchester Ranger T in 180gr. for .40S&W and the same in 127 gr. +p+ in my 9mm.

I would like to move up to Corbon DPX but that stuff is just too expensive.
Willy P
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Post by Willy P »

pfgov The bottleneck 44 to 357 has been done. 357/44 Bains and Davis 158gr bullet at 2000 to 2100 fps. Pretty cool load but illegal for OH deer as it is not straight walled and too much for a human if pass through and down range worries are involved. BTW it was for a TC Contender pistol. I have not looked for a long time but the 357 Max. should better it I think and is allowed for deer here in OH as it is straight walled. I like the sabot idea but I don't think they can take the speed/pressures you would get to be worth while. If it would work you could replace all the JDJ hand cannon rounds based on 444 marlin with them and all would be legal deer rounds in OH as the laws stand now. The 460 S&W is what I am looking at on an X frame Smith. It handles 45 Colt, 454 Casull, and the 460 S&W round all from the same revolver but WAY to big an arm for CCW use.
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