? about your defense ammo

SMMAssociates · Post by **SMMAssociates** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:56 pm

The mud monster, who likes my old Combat Magnum, asked me to bring some real magnums to the range about six months ago.

I had a box of Norma's that were about 30 years old, although stored gently.

Not a miss in the bunch. She loved 'em....

I had some .38's of about the same vintage that were fine, too.

I don't trust reloads, btw, to do that, although I'm sure there are some guys out there who are loading 'em well enough.

(I recall reading about somebody who soaked a bunch of primers in WD40 for a while, and then found that they wouldn't fire. Until they dried out....)

glock19guy · Post by **glock19guy** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:44 am

Aaron wrote:depending on where your pistol is on your person, is possible corrosion from moisture, but thats just case corrosion. And most self defense ammo is non corrosive.

the term "non-corrosive" does not refer to the case's abilty to resist corrosion, it just means that the powder residue left in you gun will not eat a hole in the bore. i wouldn't worry about it if the mag is left in the gun all the time, my only concern is when i'm rotating mags and i'm getting sweat and oil on the same 15 rounds every week for 6 months. i personally will fire the ammo in my mags every month, b/c i don't want a squib load at the worst possible time. (the chances are remote, but is it worth the chance?) my peace of mind is worth $20 a month.

jbp-ohio · Post by **jbp-ohio** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:08 am

If you carry the ammo around all of the time, getting bumped and jostled, the powder could get broken down to a fine powder. I really don't know if that would adversely affect the pressure of the rounds being fired, but I have wondered about it..........

ballistic · Post by **ballistic** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:26 am

According to the gun gurus in the popular literature (Jan Libourel, Wiley Clapp, Gary Paul Johnston, Dick Metcalf, Walt Rauch, Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, etc., take your pick), factory ammo is theoretically good forever if kept away from the elements in a cool, dry environment. They also recommend regularly rotating your defensive ammo. (Note: These two points are among the few things on which I have accepted their collective wisdom.) At practice I first shoot a magazine or cylinder full of the defensive load, then continue with a ballistically equivalent target load. Back home I recharge the gun with new factory defensive ammo (after cleaning the gun, of course). It's worth it to me to use up and replace gradually my defensive ammo, regardless of cost. After all, it's my life I'm investing in.

Willy P · Post by **Willy P** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:03 am

As I stated once before, Bob Milek ( maybe with the help of Steve Herrett ) did a very long study on vibration and loaded ammunition back around '84 that was published in either Guns and Ammo or Petersen's. I searched looking for it on the Internet but found no references. Ok I did a yahoo search only, it may be out there and I did not find it. What was basically done was to put loaded rounds of ammo in what was then a new item, a vibratory case cleaner as opposed to the Thumblers Tumblers that were the norm of the day. Have you ever seen what one of these does to a round of ammo just thrown in there without media? A lifetime at Cedar Point on all the rides is no comparison! The rounds were either shot or torn down after various time limits and examined. Primers were looked at for pressure signs, none were found. Rounds were chronographed and little deviation about the norm was found. Broken down loads were examined for granular breakdown and little was noticed. I know that was a long time ago but we were past putting salt peter, sulfer, and charcoal in a hollow gord and shaking it up to mix it back then. Personally I would think SAMMI does that sort of testing on new powder formulas before they hit the market these days. With all that stated I do agree that peace of mind is VERY important and you should use new rounds on a regular basis in your carry arm but if push came to shove I would expect every round of old stuff I have here to go off if needed. I have old rounds of 06 here that I got from shooting DCM way back. These things were loaded for M1's 10 years before I was born and trucked to and from only God and the military knows where. Every one goes bang every time.

MDM · Post by **MDM** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:01 pm

Went to the range this morning and one of the things I did was dump the defense ammo I`v been carrying. The results were not pleasant. First, the ammo was Federal premium 135 gr. hydrashocks. While all the rounds did go bang it was quite obvious that some were hotter than others. Felt like two shots were 44 mag then a shot of 22 cal and so on. My group at 25 ft. spread out to about ten inches. After running through all 20 rounds of defense ammo I loaded up some Federal 115 gr. hardball. Group shrank to 2 inches and the gun (Glock 26) felt alot more consistant. I will definitely be rotating my carry ammo more than every year and a half or so.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:31 am

how long was it in the mag?

1.5 years until you recently shot it?

MDM · Post by **MDM** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:44 am

Yea, I bought the ammo the same day I purchased my pistol and that was March of 04. It`s been in and out of the mags. I`ve been rotating it from one to the other so as not to damage any of my mags from leaving them fully loaded for to long. I`ve used this particular ammo in my other pistols with nice results.

Buckshot · Post by **Buckshot** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:15 pm

MDM,

I carry a S&W 640-1 in .357 Mag. and load it with Federal Hydra-Shok 158 gr. HP ammo.

I am still working out of the 160 rounds that I bought a few years ago. I fired 40 rounds to prove the revolver then held onto the rest of it. I carry 5 in the gun and 2 speedloaders loose in my pocket (can't find a concealed speedloader carrier I like).

The 5 rounds in the gun get discolored. The 10 rounds in the two speedloaders get even more discolored.

I fire and replace the ammo AFTER sweating season each year, then carry the new rounds through the winter, spring and the next speating season.

Hve not had any trouble with the 30 rounds I have fired so far after this carry procesure. No real difference in report or recoil. I did notice that this ammo has relatively little flash compared to the cheaper stuff, such as Winchester white box or Rem - UMC.

Buckshot

Willy P · Post by **Willy P** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:53 am

Buckshot aren't those HydroShok rounds nickle plated cases? The ones I have noticed lately when looking at 45s are all plated. Although I never liked it much for reloading ( cases tend to crack after fewer reloadings ) or hunting rounds I do like it in a defense carry round. I feel a good clean casing tends to feed up through a semiauto's magazine more freely. Confidence is everything!

JEaton · Post by **JEaton** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:15 pm

Ammo overall is pretty hard to hurt. A guy I work with tested some ammo by putting it in an ultra-sonic cleaning tank for > 2 hours and immersing in Hoppe's #9 for a month. Neither batch failed. I have heard that WD-40 being a penetrating oil will find its way in through the primer hole and ruin the primers.

More of a concern, and maybe why MDM felt a difference in the ammo he shot up, is that the bullet can be pushed back in the case if the same cartridge is chambered over and over. Just a couple of weeks ago another fellow I know shoed me his .45acp ammo that was about the length of .45gap. He had been chambering and rechambering the same two rounds each day for months. His was made worse since he has a 25# spring in his Kimber for some reason.

Post by **NavyChief** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:12 pm

JEaton wrote:...the bullet can be pushed back in the case if the same cartridge is chambered over and over.

I had that problem with Silvertips in my alloy-frame Springer 1911 after only chambering a couple-three times. Don't know why - it just doesn't like 'em. HydraShoks, FMJs, etc - no problem.

Willy P · Post by **Willy P** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:26 pm

The trainer that did our CCW class was VERY forward about changing out your "Barney" round on a regular basis and moving it through the magazine and then using it for a practice round after a few cycles. I would imagine is was just the very reason you cited Chief as to why he wanted that done. I know I had the opposite problem with reloads in magnum revolvers when I first started hand loading. If the crimps on the bullets are not right they will back out and bind the cylinder. The new collet crimp dies are great for getting the crimp you want and not deforming bullet tips when reloading. It is worth the extra step and pulled my long range rifle load groups in some just from using it as a seperate step.

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